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		<title>Alternative Technology Assn Forums &#187; Topic: Why generators are terrified of solar</title>
		<link>http://www.ata.org.au/forums/topic/3285</link>
		<description>Sustainable living: making it happen</description>
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		<pubDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 06:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
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			<title>Morbo on "Why generators are terrified of solar"</title>
			<link>http://www.ata.org.au/forums/topic/3285#post-26791</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2012 10:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>Morbo</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">26791@http://www.ata.org.au/forums/</guid>
			<description><p>forgot, how much energy is created by solar thermal? Plus in summer elctricity demand is higher, and PV output too.</p>
<p>and here there is something else I should mention:<br />
<a href="http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/02/21/the-rise-and-rise-of-mining-company-donations/" rel="nofollow">http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/02/21/the-rise-and-rise-of-mining-company-donations/</a></p>
<p>no idea how other donations are like but here is a nice one<br />
<a href="http://www.tobaccoinaustralia.org.au/chapter-10-tobacco-industry/10-22-donations-to-political-parties" rel="nofollow">http://www.tobaccoinaustralia.org.au/chapter-10-tobacco-industry/10-22-donations-to-political-parties</a></p>
<p>and VIC got a Premier that got in not because of his abilities but because of family connections. Bit like the cousin business back in the mothership. Alas, wind industry down brown coal up.</p>
<p>And of course the fear of losing control. How else can you explain that the solar scheme in VIC benefitted 10 000 installations only, thats less than 1 per cent of households.
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			<title>Morbo on "Why generators are terrified of solar"</title>
			<link>http://www.ata.org.au/forums/topic/3285#post-26789</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2012 10:48:02 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>Morbo</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">26789@http://www.ata.org.au/forums/</guid>
			<description><p><a href="http://austcoalconsulting.com/downloads/1%20Australian%20Coal%20Export%20Forecast%20to%202015.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://austcoalconsulting.com/downloads/1%20Australian%20Coal%20Export%20Forecast%20to%202015.pdf</a><br />
there is your answer. 1 ton of coal buys you a DVD player, 10 buy you ad plasma. Plus you need brains to build a DVD player, to dig up coal you can ride to work on a sheeps back.<br />
If some funny island sinks we stick the refugees on another not so funny island and be done with. Someone becomes famous for a 40% efficiency PV, we wave our flag and buy it back from Germany in 20 years time. Why bother, there is 700 years worth of coal in the LaTrobe basin. And windmills are plain ugly and only create jobs in Denmark.
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			<title>Greg C on "Why generators are terrified of solar"</title>
			<link>http://www.ata.org.au/forums/topic/3285#post-26787</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2012 08:22:06 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>Greg C</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">26787@http://www.ata.org.au/forums/</guid>
			<description><p>He totally ignores solar thermal, strange as plants have been running since 1998. They answer all the criticisms of intermittence, dealing with the early evening peak after the sun goes down. The fact that they would all be a fast response type generators means the marry well with wind and photovoltaics. </p>
<p>The only thing to work out is the financial problems. The market does not price the greenhouse issue and so we can't rely on market forces. Some form of government subsidy/funding is needed, like a much bigger NBN
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			<title>Morbo on "Why generators are terrified of solar"</title>
			<link>http://www.ata.org.au/forums/topic/3285#post-26782</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 16:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>Morbo</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">26782@http://www.ata.org.au/forums/</guid>
			<description><p><a href="http://www.actuaries.org/IACA/Colloquia/Sydney/Burge.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.actuaries.org/IACA/Colloquia/Sydney/Burge.pdf</a><br />
solar may iron out the peak to 7PM but then there is trouble
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			<title>IAEA on "Why generators are terrified of solar"</title>
			<link>http://www.ata.org.au/forums/topic/3285#post-26205</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>IAEA</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">26205@http://www.ata.org.au/forums/</guid>
			<description><p><a href="http://energy.unimelb.edu.au/index.php?page=energy-futures-seminar-series-2011" rel="nofollow">http://energy.unimelb.edu.au/index.php?page=energy-futures-seminar-series-2011</a></p>
<p><a href="http://energy.unimelb.edu.au/index.php?page=energy-futures-seminar-series-2010" rel="nofollow">http://energy.unimelb.edu.au/index.php?page=energy-futures-seminar-series-2010</a></p>
<p>Adding these as they are interesting reading.</p>
<p>IAEA
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			<title>IAEA on "Why generators are terrified of solar"</title>
			<link>http://www.ata.org.au/forums/topic/3285#post-26203</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>IAEA</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">26203@http://www.ata.org.au/forums/</guid>
			<description><p>Abstract: In electricity markets that use a merit order dispatch system, generation capacity is ranked by the price that it is bid into the market. Demand is then met by dispatching electricity according to this rank, from lowest to highest bid. The last capacity dispatched sets the price received by all generation, ensuring the lowest cost provision of electricity. A consequence of this system is that significant deployments of low marginal cost electricity generators, including renewables, can reduce the cost of electricity. In Australia, this prospect has been recognized in concern expressed by some coal-fired generators that delivering too much renewable generation would reduce wholesale electricity prices. In this analysis we calculate the likely reduction of wholesale prices through this merit order effect on the Australian National Electricity Market. We calculate that for 5GW of capacity, comparable to present per capita installation of photovoltaics in Germany, the reduction in wholesale prices would have been worth in excess of A$1.8 billion over 2009 and 2010, all other factors being equal. We explore the implications of our findings for Feed-in Tariff policies, and find that they could deliver savings to consumers, contrary to prevailing criticisms that they are a regressive form of taxation.</p>
<p>When this paper has been presented for peer review and is released, then and only then can it have any credibility.</p>
<p>Will be following Prof. Mike Sandiford and the cabal he leads with re: to any new venture capital project that they lay their hands to!!! </p>
<p>I always like following the money.</p>
<p>Prof. Sandiford has a great site showing Australia and earthquake activity - great for the storage of low, intermediate and hopefully high level (SNF) waste.</p>
<p><a href="http://energy.unimelb.edu.au/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&#038;cntnt01articleid=112&#038;cntnt01returnid=22" rel="nofollow">http://energy.unimelb.edu.au/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,detail,0&#038;cntnt01articleid=112&#038;cntnt01returnid=22</a></p>
<p>IAEA
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			<title>sun2steam on "Why generators are terrified of solar"</title>
			<link>http://www.ata.org.au/forums/topic/3285#post-26118</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:42:54 +0000</pubDate>
			<dc:creator>sun2steam</dc:creator>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">26118@http://www.ata.org.au/forums/</guid>
			<description><p>The title says it all.</p>
<p>Because of the merit order effect (for instance solar electricity must be consumed before electricity from fossil power plants can be used) solar electricity production bites a big dent into the earnings of conventional power producers. No wonder they are fighting hard to at least slow the growth of renewable energy.</p>
<p><a href="http://reneweconomy.com.au/2012/why-generators-are-terrified-of-solar-44279" rel="nofollow">http://reneweconomy.com.au/2012/why-generators-are-terrified-of-solar-44279</a>
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