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Apricus Or Hills Evacuated Tube Solar HW System?

(354 posts) (94 voices)
  • Started 3 years ago by GJOESQ
  • Latest reply from peter69_56

Tags:

  • air bleed valve
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  • Appliance Repairs
  • Appliance Spare parts
  • Apricus
  • Apricus Hot Water Woodfired
  • connection
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  1. User has not uploaded an avatar

    micko
    Member

    Hi Gav, thanks for the feedback on the manual. We have tried to make it as informative and easy to understand as possible.

    In answer to your question, I designed the heat pipe to be offset so the heat pipe and the heat transfer fin are at the top of the tube as close as possible to where the sunlight is contacting in order to maximise efficiency. This design also allows us to have a high tensile metal clip which supports the heat pipe and aluminium fin to ensure they remain tight in contact with the glass. Previously we also had the centralised heat pipe with a pair of fins but the aluminium looses its "spring" over time with the high temperatures, resulting in poor contact with both the glass wall and the heat pipe resulting in decreased heat transfer.

    Posted Sunday 21 Nov 2010 @ 2:21:12 am from IP #
  2. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Peasants
    Member

    Hello all.... great to have joined this forum...we have done all the reading here and elsewhere and with 2 of us at home here in Jandakot (Perth) and occasionally one more are gearing up for an Apricus system... quotes &c are coming in.... the only real issue for us now being on very drinkable bore water ( very low iron content, 'soft', Ph 6.9)) is whether the stainless steel tank which we had decided on is the 'go' or whehter we should go for a tank withe then anode..

    Posted Tuesday 23 Nov 2010 @ 11:35:51 am from IP #
  3. User has not uploaded an avatar

    micko
    Member

    Peasants.

    I recommend you check if your water is going to excess the levels outlined in the Everlast tank warranty policy, which are:

    Where water stored in the cylinder exceeds the following levels :
    Total dissolved solids : 600 mg/litre or p.p.m.
    Electrical conductivity : 850 uS/cm
    Total hardness : 200 mg/litre or p.p.m.
    Chloride : 250 mg/litre or p.p.m.
    Magnesium : 10 mg/litre or p.p.m.
    Sodium : 150 mg/litre or p.p.m.
    pH : Min 6.5 and Max 8.5

    So your pH is ok, but would be a good idea to check the others. If you get a stainless tank and it quickly rusts they will check the water against these levels before providing any kind of warranty coverage. If you water is not within these levels then go with a glass lined Apricus tank, which will perform much better with bore water. You should make a note of checking the anode at least once every 2 years. If you replace the anode before it is totally degraded the tank can last for a long, long time.. far beyond the normal 7-10 year life expectancy.

    Posted Tuesday 23 Nov 2010 @ 1:21:10 pm from IP #
  4. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Peasants
    Member

    Micko ta for this... most likely will go for glass lined.....final questions before choosing .. there are two of us full time, light shower types, with our son here one week in three and maybe moving out in a year or so fully... he is a heavy shower user.. would you look towards the 325 litre or the 250.. we are not sure... also while we have a couple...we are also looking for other Apricus reps here in Perth south of the river.. do you have a list??

    Posted Wednesday 24 Nov 2010 @ 6:31:12 am from IP #
  5. User has not uploaded an avatar

    micko
    Member

    Peasants. I would recommend the 250L, as you should size for normal use which at the moment is 2 people, and in Perth that will provide enough water for a good long shower with excellent solar contribution/savings throughout the year. Regarding a list I will let the Apricus Australia sales team post a reply for you on that.

    Posted Wednesday 24 Nov 2010 @ 1:47:29 pm from IP #
  6. User has not uploaded an avatar

    bgraetz
    Member

    Hi Peasants,
    Our local Apricus representative here in Northern NSW, sent me through the details for someone at Apricus that can help you out over there in Perth:

    Luke oliver 0459027560
    Email: loliver(at)apricus.com.au

    Obviously in his email you need to use an @ sign!

    hope that helps you out!...

    BG.

    Posted Wednesday 24 Nov 2010 @ 9:48:12 pm from IP #
  7. Bullwitter

    Bullwitter
    Member

    Does anyone know where one can get SHORT evacuated tubes, ie about 1 m in length? I have a place where I can have plenty of tubes (ie width) but not long tubes. A friend recently sent me a photo of a house (don't know where) that had short vertical ETs mounted outside the balcony railing.

    Posted Friday 3 Dec 2010 @ 10:48:17 pm from IP #
  8. Lance

    Lance
    Key Master

    Try ebay, http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Balcony-wall-mount-30-tube-SOLAR-heat-collector-/200530929488

    Posted Saturday 4 Dec 2010 @ 12:09:45 am from IP #
  9. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Nervous
    Member

    Hi all,
    after doing a lot of reading, I've come to the conclusion Apricus is probably the most reliable evacuated SHWS on the market, but it seems that if the installation is not done right - problems creep in.

    I'm located in sydney southwest, so I'm wondering if anyone has had an apricus installed in that region and if so, how its going and if you can recommend a reliable installer?

    Posted Monday 28 Feb 2011 @ 11:24:30 pm from IP #
  10. User has not uploaded an avatar

    mfearman
    Member

    Blue Dog Solar do SHW installs around the Sydney area. I know they specailize in the Apricus product. Their prices are fair as well. Their number is 1300 258 364 or you can email them at bookings@bluedogsolar.com.au

    Posted Friday 4 Mar 2011 @ 1:04:29 am from IP #
  11. User has not uploaded an avatar

    ely0809
    Member

    Hi Peasants,

    Did you end up getting a list of suppliers for Perth, I am also SOR? I am looking at getting one of these systems and need a couple more quotes. Only person I have been able to find quoted $5000 for the 315l with 30 tubes (glass tank). Would like to be able to compare.

    Posted Monday 21 Mar 2011 @ 1:47:08 pm from IP #
  12. User has not uploaded an avatar

    canyoner
    Member

    I'm in Sydney (northern beaches) getting the 30 tube + 315l Stainless tank installed next week for under $3000 - after rebates.
    I using Bluedog Solar, as no one else got back to me with full (include everything) prices after over 6 months of trying to get answers.
    I'll let you know how it goes.

    Posted Tuesday 22 Mar 2011 @ 1:56:17 am from IP #
  13. User has not uploaded an avatar

    canyoner
    Member

    The install went well. Wayne & Mark from Bluedog Solar did a good job & in less time than they expected. Nice blokes based on the Central Coast, but do all of Sydney.
    Few hiccups, but nothing to worry about:
    - Parts were supposed to be delivered prior - not done so they had to pick them up from Seven Hills, delaying the install.
    - Didn't flush system - no access to hot water taps @ the time as no one was home, so I had to get the air & dirty water out before my shower - 5 mins with several hot taps on to clear it out.
    Nice hot water after only a few hours of sunshine.

    Posted Wednesday 30 Mar 2011 @ 11:46:29 pm from IP #
  14. User has not uploaded an avatar

    Nervous
    Member

    Thanks for the suggestion and update Canyoner. I got in touch with them and they sound like a nice and reliable company. Going to get a couple of other quotes just in case, but will probably end up with Blue Dog anyway.

    Btw, I'm getting a elec booster sys, if you did too, did you needed to get an electrician to complete the intallation?

    Posted Thursday 31 Mar 2011 @ 11:11:55 am from IP #
  15. User has not uploaded an avatar

    canyoner
    Member

    Nervous,
    You'll need to get a licenced electrician to do that connection & it needs a power point for the pump.
    Mine is electric boost using the Off peak 1. Turned off now, so I'll see how it goes. North facing roof, with 25 degree pitch, no solar impedances - should be perfect!

    Now for some PV panels...

    Posted Thursday 31 Mar 2011 @ 11:36:26 pm from IP #
  16. User has not uploaded an avatar

    mick_queensland
    Member

    Hi,

    I am going to install a SHWS within the next month or so. I am still gathering quotes right now, and obviously doing as much research as possible. One thing has niggled at me since I started reading up on different systems. The water release during hot days/every day/etc...

    Just so that I am clear on this, please correct the following statement if I am wrong.

    Water is released from the manifold when A: the storage tank preset temperature is already reached and therefore the pump does not operate and B: there is still sunshine on the collector. The water is released because heat is still being added to the manifold and the expanding water has nowhere to go because the pump is not circulating it to the storage tank.

    If that statement is correct, then I would think that FP would also suffer from this problem too. Anyone know if that's the case? If not, then how do they manage over-temperature water?

    Posted Wednesday 13 Apr 2011 @ 5:13:40 pm from IP #
  17. User has not uploaded an avatar

    bgraetz
    Member

    Hi Mick,
    The Apricus style tubes do-not release any water on the roof, the pressure builds up and is released by dripping of your PTR valve on the storage tank. their manifolds are pressure tested and rated to handle these high pressures and temperatures.

    some tube systems use a "steam vent valve" on the manifold, to release this pressure/temperature. just check on what sort of valves they are because i have heard some of them aren't rated for constant solar use and can work for a while and then play up - i'm not sure on the exact details of this though.

    Flat panels do also release water depending on the brand/design most leak their water on the roof.

    every system needs some sort of relief because the water expands as it heats up. Different brands etc. use different ways to do it. but every system needs it in some way or another.

    hope this helps
    Brendan G.

    Posted Wednesday 13 Apr 2011 @ 9:19:55 pm from IP #
  18. User has not uploaded an avatar

    mick_queensland
    Member

    Hi,

    thanks Brendan, yes, helpful. I can see now, that no system is particularly more water friendly than another. That was something that I was wondering.

    At least if the excess is vented through the storage tank, it would mean the storage tank was always full (maybe?)

    As has been said before in this thread, all systems are very similar, so its down to the installer to make a difference. And thats pretty much what I thought.

    In another thread on here, a link was posted to an Irish energy website that declared that the Evac Tube crowd were exaggerating just a bit when they suggest that their collectors are more efficient than a FP collector. The website suggests that the whole area of the collector should be compared. My thought on this is who cares which is more efficient as long as the price is fair and it does the job in winter. I dont want to pay for any electricity for water heating period ! Some might say I am asking for too much but I dont think so when I live in tropical Australia. The website also suggests that the Chinese manufacturers make the least efficient ET collectors and the European ETs are better. Again, who cares, as long as it does the job for the right price.

    I have so far read about and in some cases emailed
    Hills - via a supplier in southern Qld All Over Solar - awaitng reply
    Apricus - awaiting response from Apricus (the Townsville guy doesnt have email)
    Suntrap - almost $1000 for freight to N.Q. hmmm....
    AAE - awaiting a detailed quote
    Skysolar - no distributors in Qld

    and I am comparing a few FPs to keep it on an even field
    Ecosmart - emailed - I need to call them when I get back home
    Solahart - not contacted yet
    Edwards - awaiting response

    The research goes on, this is not easy when you live in Townsville but you are not home to make phone calls.

    Cheers, Mick

    Posted Thursday 14 Apr 2011 @ 12:46:37 am from IP #
  19. User has not uploaded an avatar

    bgraetz
    Member

    We have a small family business in Northern NSW, we supply the Apricus evacuated tube system.

    We don't employ plumbers directly, and in our experience with different plumbers, i can Definitely can back up that no matter how good the system is, if the installation is not correct. it will not work to its maximum potential.

    You are definitely doing the right thing by doing your research!
    also found installation costs to vary by HUGE amounts.

    In regards to Chinese evacuated tubes compared to European evacuated tubes... there are WAYY to many manufacturers out there to make that sort of assumption. Just jump on http://www.alibaba.com and search for evacuated tubes.

    There are Thousands of manufacturers... It all comes down to quality control! I'm sure there are a lot of inferior tubes coming out of China, as-well as from Europe.
    But that's the same with any product: PV Modules, Kids toys, everything. Research the company, where do they source their tubes from (eg. not trying to be bias, but Apricus run their own manufacturing plant)

    There are also different designs of evacuated tubes which a lot of people don't realise:

    Eg. Heat pipe evacuated tubes (Hills, Apricus, AAE etc. use these) they are the most common, i did read somewhere that they aren't THE most efficient style of evacuated tube you can get, BUT are the best in terms of value for money - Efficiency to Cost ratio.

    You can also get U-Tube evacuated tubes, or direct flow evacuated tubes, these circulate the water in and out of each tube, which some say is a slightly more efficient way to heat the water, but harder to manufacture, and harder to replace tubes (more manufacturing costs, more maintenance costs etc.), also you start having issues with frost protection etc!!...

    and there are more, a google search will probably find a run-down of more types.

    ------------------------------------------

    Basically what I'm trying to convey is that you're always going to hear good and bad things about everything, look at you're own personal situation. Do your own research, don't rely on what one salesperson tells you.

    I hope i haven't confused you more, and sorry for writing such a long post!..

    I am just very passionate about these subjects because in our industry, i have seen WAY too many people be mislead and given false hope and information!!

    Cheers,
    Brendan G.

    Posted Thursday 14 Apr 2011 @ 3:19:01 am from IP #
  20. User has not uploaded an avatar

    cnheu
    Member

    Hi Mick_Queensland,

    Try e-mailing our RMs in Queensland: michael.axisa@apricus.com.au or mat.briggs@apricus.com.au

    In regards to your query about quality differences between Europe and China. Please consider some of these factors listed below:

    - Apricus tubes have a 15 year warranty lifetime
    - All solar hot water systems which come into Australia (including Apricus) have to pass through strict auditing and compliance by Australian standards before they can be sold here. This is especially important when you have "open loop" systems since you've got drinking water passing through our manifolds.
    - As Brendan mentioned, Apricus Australia is the supplier of Apricus China, and while our manufacturer sits in China, our values and our policies are very "Australian". Apricus China's CEO is a born and bred Aussie! Because of this connection it puts our R&D team and warranty/after-services teams in direct contact with Apricus China, providing real-time feedback on how we can produce systems which are optimised for use in Australia.

    I hope this might answer some of your queries.

    If anybody has any questions feel free to e-mail me or reply to this thread.

    Posted Friday 15 Apr 2011 @ 12:27:56 am from IP #
  21. amun-ra

    amun-ra
    Member

    Mick The Townsville guy has email and systems in stock please pm me mta33788atbigpond.net.au Mick

    Posted Friday 15 Apr 2011 @ 11:35:12 am from IP #
  22. User has not uploaded an avatar

    mick_queensland
    Member

    Hi,

    thanks for the help with an Apricus supplier in Townsville. I have had a reply from him now.

    Many thinks to all the people I have contacted and who have replied with quotes (thats if any of them read this forum)

    So, I have a question. Why dont any installers or manufacturers recommend installing the collector so that winter sun is optimised and in summer the panel doesnt receive too much insolation? Doing this makes sense to me and the sales would be for a slightly larger system.

    Once they see I have a roof with 22.5° pitch at 4°W of T.N. then they just want to install on flat on the roof. Is it a question of "form over function"?

    Also, I have not found any calculators to work our how big a system you need, that take into account your collector tilt angle.

    So, I have pulled together bits of information from all over the place, and figured it for myself.

    Anyway, I will be talking to the installers that have responded about tilting my collector for winter plus going up one size in collector.

    Cheers, Mick

    Posted Saturday 16 Apr 2011 @ 8:03:10 pm from IP #
  23. User has not uploaded an avatar

    mick_queensland
    Member

    Hi,

    After more thoughts on angling the collector for the winter months, it is the best idea. Of course there is a downside to any good idea, and that is how will it look. (form over function again) I measured the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) by seeing what she thought. In my situation the WAF for having the collector sitting at an angle off the roof was very very low. If you are thinking about doing this and you will not notice your collectors on the roof (eg; a high WAF) I would say do it. Bear in mind you will most likely need a larger collector by 25%. You will be able to see my collectors from the street so it should really look nice. (someone define "nice" please!)
    So, I went back to the "drawing board" and did all my calculations again at my roof pitch of 22.5°. Its not really that bad, it will be just a little bit too much in the worst month of summer and not quite enough for the worst 2 months of winter. The upside is that the collector is smaller so its cheaper. I have some ideas on improving winter production using a reflector board. I know the WAF will be low but it will only be up for a month.... We will see....
    So far still having quoted coming in, all fine so far.
    Cheers for the help so far guys. Mick

    Posted Tuesday 19 Apr 2011 @ 12:04:03 am from IP #
  24. User has not uploaded an avatar

    bgraetz
    Member

    Hahaha Love the "WAF" we hear that a lot but didn't know what to call it!!

    Interested to see how you go.

    We recommend 40-45' for every install, but the WAF comes in to most installs and it it's not acceptable. Suprising how many Husbands also say "nah she'll be right" as well though.

    the other thing I have seen customers doing is putting solar on the south side and pitch it north on a high frame.... sticks out ALOT, but if it follows a similar pitch to the roof cant see it from the road.

    Or Hang off a wall???

    Posted Tuesday 19 Apr 2011 @ 5:27:56 am from IP #
  25. amun-ra

    amun-ra
    Member

    MICK I have been trying to get solar accepted in townsville since 2005 but after price
    WAF is one of the biggest problems I call it the MRS bucket factor where more consideration is given to what looks good on the roof than on performance. I will work with you to achieve your desired outcome please keep in touch Mick

    Posted Tuesday 19 Apr 2011 @ 10:50:21 am from IP #
  26. User has not uploaded an avatar

    mick_queensland
    Member

    Hi,

    thanks bgraetz, my ideal angle for winter is 42°, and if I use that then I think I will need a 30 tube system. My roof is pitched 22.5° and faces almost exactly T.N. The collector will be clearly visible from the street, even more so if I angled it off the roof. Anyway, the WAF was so low on the winter angle that I have to think of something else. A ~20 tube collector flat on my roof will work for most months, and I was thinking of sneaking a WAF unapproved reflector up there for winter. The benefit is a cheaper system. The wall idea has merit, but would require an serious bracket. I also need to consider future developments near the wall (like shade sails). The roof is available as I will not be using it for PV.
    Amun-ra, what do you mean by "getting solar accepted in Townsville" In my small suburb I have seen a lot of newly installed PV systems (not so many SHWS) I think current pricing is very attractive and is the reason I have only now gone all out to reduce my mains use to the absolute minimum. We live in one of the best locations in the world, let alone Australia, for solar energy production. Townsville has an annual average of 300 days of sunshine, and its good and strong sun too, not like the wimpy southern stuff. So with 82% of full sunshine and even cloudy days have a serious amount of energy, why wouldnt you go solar? Only price! So you need to do your sums, show the ROI and run it through the WAF test. Mine came out with a high WAF. Of course the cost numbers are high enough to frighten a lot of people away, even with the government assistance. But then, our elec bills before solar were enough to frighten the heck out of both myself and the good wife.
    cheers, Mick

    Posted Sunday 24 Apr 2011 @ 2:13:42 am from IP #
  27. Skysolarman

    Skysolarman
    Member

    Hi Micko ,

    1) All Evacuated tube systems in Australia today are not chinese made ,I am a director in Sky Solar an Australian company that import an ET(evacuated tubes)"U" pipe SWH system from ITALY with CPC(Mirrored trough reflector)...not to be compared to Solar Lord please.
    I read your response with great interest and found your comments to be correct in the main but not quite right in some areas... such as the use or purpose of what you call steam valves that are actually air vent valves(AVV) .
    2) The AVV was invented to relieve air only as the product description suggest and not to relieve steam from "indirect or direct SWH systems" otherwise there would not be the issue of possible melting of the plastic float if the product design was for steam...
    Australia and New Zealand have been instrumental in the adaption of ET's to "Direct SWH systems even though the ET's design is clear that DESIGN for installation is "indirect" because of there high heat yield where full control of overpressure and overheating is required.
    The Australian SWH purchaser are taught to believe what the main suppliers tell them but the facts still are that direct SWH systems being installed in Australia is still very much in the experimental stage...comments re AVV etc on this forum prove and highlight that fact
    3) "direct" is the chosen option by solar suppliers such as you an me because of costs compared to "indirect" SWH systems.
    4) You say 170c is the collectors boiling point,I would agree with that under non norm circumstances where water is not drawn of from the tank for long period of times due to the occupier holidaying etc but under the norm water is being drawn of from the tank regularly creating a loss in pressure in the tank and the collector therefore lowering the boiling point to approx 113c , this figure changes depending on cold water inlet pressure to the tank from the water mains.
    As you say the AVV does release steam (not its intended purpose) but only because of the timing of the AVV wanting to release air from the system at a time when the collector is also in stagnation(steam)..air is constantly being created in the collector after stagnation recondensing..meaning once the collector has been in stagnation(water converted to steam) and has then cooled it recondenses back to its original state of being a liquid , every time this process takes place some air bubbles left,a natural side effect so when the AVV emits air it will also act as a steam valve should the collector have steam in it at that point...the problem with this is as it relieves steam it also relieves pressure that will lower the boiling point in the collector which the solar controller will lock it out from pumping that energy to the tank so i am a firm believer like you that AVV's are more of a system hinderence than a help.

    5) It is not fair to say that your enamel tanks are protected from damage because of the solar controller being set to 70c , you will know that the controller does not prevent the tank from overheat unless you some kind of sophisticated heat dump facility...when the collector gets hotter than ambient pressure builds up in the collector and because of non return valves on the return line that pressure and temperature will be exherted down to the tank via the flow pipe from the collector..the heat is transferred to the tank by conduction of the heat traveling through the water aided by the movement of slight pressure flow....the result is an uncontrolled overheating of your tank that is warranted to 70c and below normally or 80c and below for a short time..(warranty issues)..you cant stop it, stainless steel is the obvious choice for obvious reasons.
    6) I would suggest to you that enameled tanks are not the answer for poor quality water areas and the issue of anode replacement is not the only problem.."indirect" is the only answer to poor water quality no question and you do your customers a disservice by offering anything less , if you install a Apricus or any ET system that is in poor quality water areas the system will work well for a while until there is a build up of alkalines , heavy metals and calcium on the walls of the copper pipe in the manifold where the heat pipe heat exchanger pockets are , once this happens the efficiency of heat exchange in the collector rapidly declines.
    7)Recs on enameled tanks are generally higher as you say mainly because of the thermal insulation properties seem to be better for some unknown reasons than stainless steel(s/s)..Everlast are priced well but in particular does not have good insulation properties and tend to drag down the RECs of a good ET collector and system , don't get me wrong they are ok as a tank for their price but there is better s/s tanks on the market for a little bit more in cost.
    Mid element tanks should be banned , they should all be twin element one high and one low , I know ET's are the best for heat generation thats a given but in the winter time depending on location a SWH struggles to heat 300 liters to 60c for a family of 4 or 5 and only has 130 -150 liters above the mid element which is not enough and more times than enough the family continually run out of hot water in the winter time...but hey they got maybe $100 or more in Recs value to compensate them...I doubt it they think of that in winter when they have run out of water and the kids are moaning no hot water.
    Recs are worked out by the following ways>>>> in short the computer program "Trynsis" uses the Australian Standard AS4234 to calculate the collectors efficiency V the tanks insulation efficiency V the tanks heat loss V the placement of the tanks element V the pump power usage V the element use V the solar controllers software programme(timer control or no control of the element)biosafe , frost function and so on...so for example the Rinnai 300 liter enamel tank may give 30 Recs even with a bottom element but a 300 liter Everlast tank even being s/s will more than likely give less Rec even with its element placed higher up..its a sham, it shows that you can have a rubbish collector in tandem with a quality insulated s/s tank with high element and an excellent controller and still end up with high Rec..none of those components are heat producing but that dosent matter when it comes to producing RECs , its quite ridiculous in my mind I'm sure you will agree but thats the system eh....
    9) The problem is the focus for the buyer who wants to purchase a SWH system is on the RECs to give them indications as to whether they are buying a good system or not..once again complete rubbish..emphasis should be on the quality of the collector...Isnt it the collector thats produces the heat?...!!!
    TO THE PURCHASER > Ask your supplier for proof on their collectors efficiency you may be unpleasantly surprised and found that all the quality is in the tank and not the heat maker the collector
    I hope you accept my comments in good faith that they were intended so I would also appreciate a reply when you have the time

    Posted Monday 25 Apr 2011 @ 6:14:28 am from IP #
  28. User has not uploaded an avatar

    micko
    Member

    In reply to skysolaman, a few important points:

    1. ALL twin glass evacuated tubes used in the European market, including those in your collector originate from China (correct me if I am wrong). They are imported to Italy, assembled into the panel there and then shipped to you in Australia. I know the company that supplies 90% of the tubes to Europe as they also supply our tubes (Apricus)

    2. Air vents being provided in the market from the likes of AVG are now plastic free and high temperature rated. To be honest I am not a huge fan of AAVs either, but it seems to becoming the standard approach by all the solar companies to help alleviate potential noises when steam is formed in the collector. I believe with your U pipe system you will see significantly more steam formed as there is more water content in your header and U pipes than a heat pipe system plus with the concentrating reflector panel the potential for much higher temperatures is there. That expansion has to be released somewhere, which will normally be the cold water expansion, so you are still having to dump water.

    3. During stagnation some migration of heat will occur down the return line, but that is slow and significant heat loss along the return line is occurring. If the glass lined tanks were getting well above the warranted level the PTRV on the tank would be opening and dumping hot water. That is not happening and those system have been "no load" testing to meet Australia standards which simulates extended periods of no hot water usage and high solar radiation on the collector.

    4. Regarding water quality, it is true that scale formation can occur both in the tank and collector - in any hot water system that will happen with hard water. If you are using that direct water to flow through a U tube pipe in the tubes that will block up very quickly as the temperature is very high and the copper tube diameter is very small. U tube pipe systems are really not suited for direct flow water use because of that reason. In Europe they are nearly always closed loop. The only real solution to scale formation in the collector would be a closed loop system but that requires a heat transfer fluid, expansion tank, pressure relief valves and of course a heat exchanger all of which add cost and decrease the system efficiency.

    5. RECS calculation is based on 3rd party test data on the solar collector... each manufacturer should be able to tell you what they Eta0 (y-intercept) and a1 and a1 heat loss variables are, in additional to IAM....they are the variables used by TRNSYS. So they RECs results do consider the collector efficiency in a fairly accurate way. The heat loss of the tank comes down to the insulation thickness - thicker means less heat loss but also increases cost and shipping dimensions so there is a practical limit to that. Everlast tanks could getter better RECS (I believe) if they had thicker insulation.

    I that helps provide a bit more clarity.

    Mick H

    Posted Monday 25 Apr 2011 @ 12:06:10 pm from IP #
  29. User has not uploaded an avatar

    stevo
    Member

    I have liked the idea of the evacuated tube systems, and theoretically everyone I have spoken to provides a positive comment. However I have installed an Apricus system at the beginning of 2011 and there have been slight problems with heating and the sensors reading correctly. Have been unsuccessfully trying for 5-6 weeks to get service with no response from Apricus or supplier. Don't get Apricus if you want reliable follow-up.

    Posted Sunday 29 May 2011 @ 8:19:48 am from IP #
  30. amun-ra

    amun-ra
    Member

    stevo try apricus again tomorrow and post again if no reply will see what can be done for you 5-6 weeks is too long to wait for service

    Posted Sunday 29 May 2011 @ 12:04:57 pm from IP #

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