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Green Loans - RIP

(31 posts) (12 voices)

Started 1 year ago by Eco
Latest reply from gazgc

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Green Loans

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Eco
Member

"Today the Government announced that it would not be proceeding with Rounds 1 and 2 of the Green Start Program. Additionally, the Green Loans program, which was planned to end in late 2010, will now be extended to 28 February 2011.

Since the Government’s July 2010 announcement that Green Loans Program would be phased out and would transition to a new Green Start program, it has become apparent that some of the problems associated with the historic Green Loans data cannot be resolved in sufficient time to provide confidence for the successful implementation of Green Start. The Government now considers that the risks associated with using this data to support delivery of round one of the Green Start program are too great."

http://www.climatechange.gov.au/government/programs-and-rebates/green-loans.aspx

So Green Loans finally dies on 28 February after being very sick (terminal) for a long period. And the promised replacement program "Green Start" is still born.

Posted Tuesday 21 Dec 2010 @ 5:29:56 am from IP #
swanning_it
Member

We were eligible for a green loan but last time we enquired (July/August) we found effectively no one offering them any more......has this changed?

Posted Tuesday 21 Dec 2010 @ 9:31:08 pm from IP #
sun2steam
Member

There are no Green Loans available since quite some time; only the free Home Sustainability Assessments which was an integral part of the Green Loans Program is still available to the end of February.

Unfortunately a good thing has been terribly managed. A large part of my clients for Home Sustainability Assessments has still not received their Report after more than half a year.

Posted Tuesday 21 Dec 2010 @ 10:53:36 pm from IP #
munter
Member

Green Loans with no loans.
Green Start that never starts.

As S2S says, a good idea has been tarnished through appalling implementation.

Posted Tuesday 21 Dec 2010 @ 11:12:05 pm from IP #
swanning_it
Member

Thanks, my assessment was basically worthless anyway!

Posted Tuesday 21 Dec 2010 @ 11:15:11 pm from IP #
Eco
Member

The reports issued were basically useless. Value, if any, had to come from the verbal suggestions of the assessor at the time of the assessment. If the assessor was knowledgeable and interested people could get some worthwhile information - especially if the home owner basically had no clue otherwise (unlike people like swanning_it, I am sure). If the assessor was solely in it for the money or employed by an unscrupulous company out to rip off the scheme for as much as they could, value could be minimal or zero.

A great idea wrecked by incompetence. It also wrecked a fledging industry. People were providing home sustainability on a fee for service basis before the scheme - this was wrecked as it is virtually impossible to compete with a free product that claims to do the same even if it is second rate. The scheme tarnished a whole potential industry. What should have happened, and indeed should still happen, is that people be subsidised for getting an assessment (not using that useless "Tool" that generated the substandard report). Subsidy could be through tax deductibility of the cost of the assessment or, preferably, a grant of say 50% of the cost of the assessment up to $100 (or some other basis).

The promise of Green Start was clearly a ploy to placate and quieten the assessors during the election campaign. However I do agree that the scheme was so compromised that it was beyond help. It is a real pity so many people of goodwill were financially hurt. The compensation package does not sound adequate to compensate for this.

Posted Tuesday 21 Dec 2010 @ 11:47:28 pm from IP #
thatmosis
Member

I could have another rant here but lets suffice to say that anything green touched by this Government ends up in the trash can.

Posted Thursday 23 Dec 2010 @ 12:18:54 am from IP #
peta
Member

I had the assessment done over 12mnths ago, the best he could tell me was to make sure I only boil the water I need in the jug for a cuppa....no more, no less, he didn't even fit me with a 3 star shower head - we went and bought one a couple of months ago, and due to this forum we're 7Kiloltrs per bill thus far.... I get much better value out of ATA forum members thanks !

Posted Thursday 23 Dec 2010 @ 12:40:28 am from IP #
peta
Member

.. I mean we're saving 7 kiloltrs per bill .. thus far...

Posted Thursday 23 Dec 2010 @ 12:41:00 am from IP #
Buzzman
Member

Sounds like Peta and Swanning_it got stuck with dud assessors.

Alas, for my sins, I am one of the self-styled "independent assessors" who religiously do not promote particular brands products or services.

Even when assessing the home of a 'greenie' with solar HWS and Solar PV who challenged me to find anything they hadn't already done, I was still able to recommend a few things they hadn't thought of.

Simple stuff like proper draught-stripping to doors which, BTW, should include internal doors that access a heated or cooled space. The point of draught stripping and sealing is to prevent 'leakage' which requires the appliance to run longer or harder.

Pelmets over the top of heavy drapes prevents the establishment of a heat path as the air column behind the closed curtains is heated by the sun pouring through the glass and rises up past the curtain rod and into the room.

And there's loads more good stuff that people can still do once they've got the solar HWS and solar PV.

Posted Friday 24 Dec 2010 @ 12:56:36 am from IP #
swanning_it
Member

He wasn't a "Dud". He was a guy just trying to get himself out of a rut he was unhappy with. He was a builder who was sick of being a builder and an energy efficiency assessor seemed like a good alternative career path. Trouble was, I was one of the first to get an assessemnt (and I was his first job) and he was poorly equiped had little training (or perhaps didn't listen to the training) and didn't even have a laptop to enter the data. He told me all that was still coming as the "fill out and send" programme they needed wasn't available at that time, so everything was recorded on an A4 sheet of paper which he complained he would have to send through to the Gov't later that night. When the assessment finally arrived (months later), it was patently wrong, in fact I thought it sounded like it related to someones elses house.......perhaps it did!

Posted Friday 24 Dec 2010 @ 4:06:06 am from IP #
Buzzman
Member

swanning_it

One of the recommendations of the better RTO's was to do four or five assessments on yours and your family and friends home FIRST before attempting a "customer" household.

While some assessors do use laptops or PDAs, I personally prefer to use a paper version, as it can be quicker to record info, and provides space to make notes etc.

I modified the 'paper version' that DEWHA provided (it was 75pp long!) and got it down to 7pp. I can get thru all that data in about 30-45mins, depending on digressions, which leaves plenty of time to sit down and discuss big picture stuff with each client.

A normal assessment for me is min. 1.5hrs, maximum was 4 hrs (but that included being invited to lunch as well).

The data takes approx 45mins per household to upload in the evening and I have a permanent record in case their system crashes or loses data. (ie: proof of assessment, so proof for billing purposes).

There have been numerous instances recorded and reported on the assessors forum of bizarre outcomes in reports, many of which were caused by glitches in the software calculator and nothing whatsover to do with the poor bloody assessor who originally recorded the data, however it was recorded.

As the Senate inquiries clearly indicated it was a great idea poorly executed due to middle-rank bureaucrats not doing enough due diligence and the underlings rushing things to meet artifically (politically motivated) deadlines for delivery and commencement.

Hopefully this program has not permanently tarnished the notion of 'energy assessments' and credibility of "independent assessors" when the time comes to implement Residential Mandatory Disclosure.

Posted Friday 24 Dec 2010 @ 4:26:22 am from IP #
gazgc
Member

The real problem here is that billionaire global businessmen control our governments (via lobbyists, moles, threats, etc).

Green Loans is a perfect example of how quickly a great idea (first mooted by the Greens) gets picked up as an election-winning policy, but then becomes unworkable once the election is over and budget imperatives take precedence.

There was never going to be money for the government or business from this scheme: householders who could cut energy bills were going to be the real winners. So the Rudd govt never really got behind it - either financially or with regards to oversight - and the results were predictable.

A more caring government would have seen the massive public interest as a great reason to expand and extend the scheme. 10,000 people rushed to become assessors nationwide, spending their own money on training! We were not all shoddy operators - those people could easily have been weeded out by imposing a simple test. Instead the decent people have been driven away, and the environment will ultimately suffer for it.

Posted Friday 24 Dec 2010 @ 7:40:40 am from IP #
swanning_it
Member

Thanks for the explanation Buzzman. My poor experience has not put me off energy assessments and I must admit that I was really happy when I first heard the Gov't (taxpayer) was going to pay to do mine. Reality was (still is) that I was going to get one anyway as I'm doing a fair size reno / extension. Part of my disappointment was that my assessor, didn't want to even remotely consider my reno/extension when he was assessing, mostly I think because he didn't have the knowledge to make any design comment....the computer generated report was to do that

Because my industry has been absolutely hammered during this recent GFC, my reno/extension is certainly a longer term project than originally expected so I'm still in the market for a genuine energy assessment. I also see these latest developments as helpful (not to assessors though) as it should weed out the unknowledgeable ones and leave a niche market for experienced assessors with committment, quality and knowledge of the industry that has the ability to advise on design and not just look at what's existing and hope a computer generated report will cover the rest!

In the meantime this forum does help an enormous amount, when I gloss over the lobby who want us all to sit in the dark at night, ride bikes everywhere, never fart, wash clothes by hand in the river and only have sex when you want more kids (which apparently should only be once in a lifetime) :-))

So how does one go about finding a quality assessor? Let's face it, I was burnt once (well the taxpayer was) so the next time I wish to be sure about the person I contract to give me energy efficiency advice. How do I do that with confidence?

Posted Friday 24 Dec 2010 @ 7:10:52 pm from IP #
sun2steam
Member

swanning_it' The assessment was not meant to assess and give advice on future extensions. This was not part of the program and that would also be asking for too much. This was never meant to be a full building assessment but a Home Sustainability Assessment counting all energy consumption in a house. The training for the assessors did not include specific questions of building design.

Posted Saturday 25 Dec 2010 @ 1:18:58 pm from IP #
swanning_it
Member

Yes, I realise that now, which is why a market still exists for quality assessors/consultants. But how do I, the punter, know who is quality and who is just one of the poor souls that was relying on "counting consumption" for their existance? Is there an energy consultant industry association for example?

Posted Sunday 26 Dec 2010 @ 3:18:29 am from IP #
dave lawrence
Member

yes it is called ABSA

Posted Sunday 26 Dec 2010 @ 5:38:35 am from IP #
gazgc
Member

ABSA are government-aligned scum who sold out the people whose good cause they supposedly represent.

In fact, it appears that at least one member of the ABSA board was closely (financially) involved in the shoddy, sub-standard training that destroyed the Green Loans scheme. That would certainly explain why ABSA did not call a halt to training of the original 2,000 assessors until some 10,000 has paid membership fees to ABSA!!!!

The board has now been overhauled, with 4 new members (out of 10) pledging to bring the real facts to light.

Posted Sunday 26 Dec 2010 @ 5:48:58 am from IP #
swanning_it
Member

I just went for a look on the ABSA site. That association appears to have nothing to do with allowing the public to find member assistance.

Firstly, I do a member search for the Gold Coast (where I live). In the HERS section, 7 members are displayed, of which 4 are from NSW. Of the remaining three, 2 seem to be a husband and wife team, so effectively, for a population base of around 1/2 million people and is one of the largest growth areas in the country, we have a choice of two!

I then looked at HSAS listings. These aren't even searchable, but I was able to view a Qld listing, however this listing does not give contact details. What's the go there??

Another annoying thing for me, is the exessive use of acronyms. The general public (your potential clients) can't be expected to know what a HERS is. Or a HSAS or an SV or an RBTPA. Yes, they are explained (home page for some) but then it seems we're expected to remember which is which. Also, it seems there are only assessors accredited. I was rightly reminded by S2S in a post above that assessors are not designers...two different concepts, so where are the designers lists?

Posted Sunday 26 Dec 2010 @ 9:11:00 pm from IP #
robert
Member

I see this as a positive to these 3/4 day highly trained Assessors to go private and make a genuine living charging a fair rate direct to the home owner and to continue using there overseas telemarketing companies to chase up leads for them.

Posted Monday 27 Dec 2010 @ 1:31:42 am from IP #
Buzzman
Member

swanning_it

You're esentially right - the Home Energy Rating Scheme (HERS) and the HOme Sustainability Assessment Scheme (HSAS) are the two schemes that ABSA provides accreditation for.

I myslef have serious credibility questions about the idea of the "membership body" also being the "accreditation body". This is somewhat like letting the fox guard the henhouse.

But to answer your question - a HERS assessor who is ALSO a building designer would be useful to you, but like you I'm not sure how to find one, short of posting on the HERS forum (which I could possibly do via a chum who is both HSAS and HERS).

I'm "only" an HSAS assessor, but spent 30 years in the building game as a carpenter and builder, hence I can recommend stuff to people modifying or building when I do assessments.

Technically, what you need is a Level 2 assessment, according to the standard, but theyy will be similarly hampered as they work off constructed buildings [measurements] or plans [measurement/modelling software].

So you might be better off looking up the Architects association in your State and emailing them asking for a list of designers who specialise in "eco-design" for residential buildings.

Or their are "eco" websites that also have lists - just do your homework in case they are paid ads..... try here for example http://www.ecoshop.com.au/ecodirectory/building.htm#builders

....and no doubt other resources are available if you search Google as I just did.

Sustainable House Day is another good way to find an arhitect or designer - do the rounds of the homes within a few miles of you and ask the owners who they used, what they were like to deal with and so on... http://www.sustainablehouseday.com/

Posted Tuesday 28 Dec 2010 @ 7:35:40 am from IP #
dave lawrence
Member

what area are you in swanning it ?
do you have plans & or photos available ?

Posted Tuesday 28 Dec 2010 @ 8:57:22 am from IP #
dave lawrence
Member

I saw gold coast ,but is it the hinterland or the coast, rural or urban ?
I have done some consultations up there , but mainly work within an hour or so of Byron . I do design ,consult and drafting but (deliberately) belong to no industry association.
And have been up doing so up here for 15 years.
I was the (to my knowledge ) the first retrofitting consultant in australia, long before any ABSA's or BASIX or any other acronyms.

Posted Tuesday 28 Dec 2010 @ 9:02:11 am from IP #
swanning_it
Member

Well borderline hinterland at Nerang. I did think about your services, but decided you'd hate my plans (they aren't exactly a standard shoebox contruction).

My home will be similar to my cars.........as enviromentally friendly as I can be, without letting it rule the whole design and/or budget.

If you'd like to chat off forum my email is scantec1 at bogpond dot com.

Posted Tuesday 28 Dec 2010 @ 8:36:46 pm from IP #
swanning_it
Member

Oh and yes, plans are done and able to be emailed if you wish to see them first.

There are some photos at the renovate forum, but I haven't updated for a long while. I'm the one about to have a tank dropped on his head!
http://www.renovateforum.com/f176/our-reno-extension-76083/

Posted Tuesday 28 Dec 2010 @ 9:00:27 pm from IP #
rockabye
Member

Looks like a nice job, I like the SS tank, and not far from my old home town of Murwillumbah.

Posted Tuesday 28 Dec 2010 @ 10:04:39 pm from IP #
dave lawrence
Member

I had a look at your photos, and was bemused to realise I must come across as a purist eco-nazi. I am not, you can't afford to be , if you hope to make a living. You could consider doing the energy efficient design course I teach if you are interested . Probably too late for you by now ,but they are a lot of fun and we visit very different house sites where you always learn something . link to college :
http://www.byroncollege.org.au/courses
note the course are not advertised as yet, but will be in another few weeks .

Posted Tuesday 28 Dec 2010 @ 11:14:02 pm from IP #
robert
Member

Dave,
What do you charge for the course ?
Is it goverment funded ?

Posted Wednesday 29 Dec 2010 @ 5:51:34 am from IP #
dave lawrence
Member

I will post details when Term 1 and Term 2 brochure is out in a couple of weeks .
But it normally runs over 4 sessions and costs approx. $160 I think.
3 x 3 hour class sessions and 1 x 4 hour site visits ( including a variety of different homes including where possible the students own homes ).
Byron College also offer lots of other sustainability type courses ,it is one of the most successful and innovative regional colleges in Australia .
I have been running the course for 15 years and it has had government funding over the years .

Posted Wednesday 29 Dec 2010 @ 6:26:03 am from IP #
Anonymous
Unregistered

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Posted Wednesday 29 Dec 2010 @ 9:51:02 am from IP #

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