Apricus 30 Tube Solar HW System Is Being Installed Next Week!

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Apricus 30 Tube Solar HW System Is Being Installed Next Week!

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Started 2 years ago by GJOESQ
Latest reply from pummers

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GJOESQ
Member

ATAers,

It's all happening at Phillip Bay!! Our Apricus Solar HW system is being installed next Tuesday, if the rain holds off!

I've made some calculations that this, combined with the 2kW PV system I'm hoping to have installed soon, will supply 90% of our electricity needs!! All we need now is at least a 50c per kWh feed in payment and we'll be making a profit after 18 years!!

I know this sounds a long way off but by 18 years all the costs of buying this gear will have been paid off by the savings.

Posted Thursday 18 Jun 2009 @ 8:34:47 am from IP #
Sam
Member

Hello GJOESQ,

I'm pleased to hear you're getting your hot water system!

I have a question: has it taken long to organise this with Apricus?

I only ask because I've been trying since July/July last year to have a solar hot water system installed and it's still yet to happen.

A whole year of missing out on the solar hot water.

I hope you have a lovely day,

Sam

Posted Saturday 20 Jun 2009 @ 11:29:56 am from IP #
Sunshine
Member

Sam,

I wouldn't deal with a company that can't deliver a system for a year!
Time to take your business elsewhere...

Posted Saturday 20 Jun 2009 @ 10:37:06 pm from IP #
petanque
Member

Hope it goes well.

Does this assume that there will be no repairs for 18 years?

This would require very good pumps and inverters?

Add discounting for inflation and interest forgone it gets even more complicated.

Posted Tuesday 23 Jun 2009 @ 1:06:14 am from IP #
Sunshine
Member

petanque,

GJOESQ's figures don't include inflation of electricity charges, currently running at around 15%. The cost of energy will never get cheaper, only more expensive as history shows.
The higher cost of future electricity charges will well and truely cover any repair costs.

Just shows renewable energy is a sound investment.

Posted Tuesday 23 Jun 2009 @ 2:20:07 am from IP #
GJOESQ
Member

Sam, we started the process of investigating a SHW supplier in late April. It took a few weeks to decide on Apricus and I accepted their quote on or about May 20. It needed to be installed by June 30 to receive the Randwick City Council rebate as well as the Federal and State Government rebates.

The delivery of the tubes was delayed a week or so as a result of demand and rain further backdated installation by couple of weeks. It was finally installed in half a day on June 26 and provided hot water for all of our household's needs that night in spite of having only a few hours sunlight to warm it up.

The suppliers and installers were HotH2O and I have no hesitation in recommending them to any Sydneysiders. Wayne and Lee are professional, intelligent and thorough contractors. They filled out all necessary application forms for me and were a pleasure to deal with. After the rebates, our final out of packet cost was $1,480. This amounted to a saving of $1,200 compared to a Hills 22 tube system.

Posted Tuesday 30 Jun 2009 @ 2:10:31 pm from IP #
GJOESQ
Member

petanque, my figures are inaccurate now that the NSW feed in tariff has been set @ 60c kWh net. Not at all satisfactory for the encouagement of solar panel uptake!! I will rejig the figures and publish my latest assessment ASAP.

Posted Tuesday 30 Jun 2009 @ 2:14:00 pm from IP #
StephenJ
Member

I used HotH2O as well and no complaints. A week from order to install. Well, ok, one gripe. We put in the 22 tube system on their advice, but now, a year later, I really wish we had put in the 30 tube and 315L tank. So, my advice, HotH2O, but go the biggest you can afford.

Posted Sunday 5 Jul 2009 @ 6:06:55 am from IP #
munter
Member

Interesting comment Stephen - is your issue with the system size due to occasional exhaustion of solar how water on the 22 tube system? May I ask whether you are also using a boosting system (either gas or electric) and how you find it? I am currently considering a few different solar hot water options and am unsure on sizing and boosting. Some report excellent results from their evacuated tubes and absolutely minimal need for boosting which is what I would like to replicate. Can I ask how many people your 22 tube system is supplying? I am looking for a system to supply to 4 (2 adults, 2 kids) and am thinking that a 30 tube system will be the minimum.

Posted Monday 6 Jul 2009 @ 2:38:49 am from IP #
Solgen
Member

I have a 315l, 30 tube system that was installed in December last year. Since installation I have had to turn the booster on 7 times for a total electricity consumption of 69 kWh. I live in Sydney and when I did the calcs for our household (2 person) it recommended a 250l system but as the rebate was higher for the larger system the difference in cost was only about $500. So based on my experience

I am very satisfied that I made the right decision in going for the larger system. Only needing to boost 7 times in 7 months during our cloudy/rainy season gives me confidence that it will probably require miminal or no boosting during the next 6 months.

Munter, with your household I would suggest that you go for the larger system.

Posted Monday 6 Jul 2009 @ 7:47:52 am from IP #
rockabye
Member

Homepower magazine USA has a full comparison and pros/cons of solar hws vs tubes this issue.

http://www.homepower.com/home/

Posted Monday 6 Jul 2009 @ 8:10:21 am from IP #
GJOESQ
Member

The 30 tube system is my recommendation as well. I've only used the off peak boost once since installation on June 26. BTW, if you have the option of installing a gas or electric instant booster, that may be more economical. We already had off peak wired up so that's why we went that way.

Posted Friday 10 Jul 2009 @ 11:41:48 am from IP #
Sunshine
Member

Munter,

I would go for a 315l tank with either 30 or 40 tube collectors.
I have a 315l/30 tube system for 3 living in Brisbane.
If you live in NSW/Vic I would recommend the 40 tube version, that will require minimal boosting.

Posted Saturday 11 Jul 2009 @ 9:40:10 am from IP #
ateliving
Member

Not sure what's your 30 tube solar collector specs.

What's the vacuum tubes size? 58x1800mm? Triple vacuum tube or common tube?
If you use copper heat pipe in vacuum tubes? Maybe this is better for cold area.
How about your controller system? Using workstation? or controller and water pump?

Could you tell us more about your system specs?

Some Active solar water heater system info for reference: http://www.ateliving.com/list.php?id=24

Posted Saturday 11 Jul 2009 @ 12:23:15 pm from IP #
Sunshine
Member

Ateliving,

Have a look at the various Hills systems at http://www.hillssolar.com.au/arbitrage/pages/114
It's copper heat pipe in vacuum tubes, ideal for both tropical and colder areas. It has a controller and water pump.
Apricus also make an indentical system as well.

Posted Saturday 11 Jul 2009 @ 1:21:08 pm from IP #
ateliving
Member

Maybe you could consider to get one workstation for this active solar water heater system http://www.ateliving.com/msg.php?id=36

Posted Saturday 11 Jul 2009 @ 4:34:40 pm from IP #
Bushpilot
Member

I also have a 30 tube 315L for a household of just 2. But our farm is near Oberon, NSW, so it is cold.. I find the off-peak booster (left on) kicks in quite a bit; like most nights in Winter, due to the fact that if you shower at night then it boosts in the early am hours, leaving no work for the sun to do the next day.. Not much I can do though. Maybe instant electric booster heat would be better, with an isolator switch....

Posted Sunday 12 Jul 2009 @ 7:03:39 am from IP #
Sunshine
Member

Bushpilot,

I would suggest leaving the electric boost off unless you have rainy days.
If you use a fair bit of hot water on a cold night, then there is no harm in leaving the overnight hot water in the tank say at 40 degrees, as it will be hot again 12 or so hours later (unless you need lots of hot water again in the morning)
I was concerned that the system will automatically boost at night after showers and baths etc, heating the water so the solar won't have much to do the following day, so I have left boost off, and have never required it to date.
I think by leaving the boost off, unless it is really required is a better way to go, as you are forcing the system to boost via solar instead.

Posted Sunday 12 Jul 2009 @ 9:14:53 am from IP #
Benny
Member

Thats an inyeresting web page you referenced there Ateliving. Only $8 for a single ET !? I presume this is $US ?

I bet there are lots of people on this forum thinking of a DIY system with the main component at such a low price.

Someone else on this forum (in Qld ?) was offering tubes for $100 for a box of 10 I think. Are they the same as Ateliving supply ? Anyone in Australia importing them ?

Posted Monday 13 Jul 2009 @ 3:03:32 am from IP #
ateliving
Member

Benny,

$8 is our New York partner retail price. Our export price will be much more lower than this.

yes, I also fond many people want to DIY one Solar water heater system. Maybe they could make other parts by hand, but can't make Vacuum tubes by hand.So if someone just import vacuum tubes, it maybe a good business chance.

Arthur Huang
info@ateliving.com

Posted Monday 13 Jul 2009 @ 3:12:39 am from IP #
GJOESQ
Member

I only turn the booster on after two cloudy days.

Posted Tuesday 14 Jul 2009 @ 2:07:57 pm from IP #
pummers
Member

I have also been looking at various systems of late and trying to work out which brand to go for... As i have a young family which may or may not expand further.

I have been looking at a Suntrap or Solarlord systems. These systems use a very different style of tube to all other mentioned above. It uses a U-tube collector where the water actually travels through the collector and not the heat tube. The special coatings on the inner tube are suppose to be more efficient and produce hotter water in a shorter time period or on less sunny days.

Also noting I live in Sydney and it will be very unlikely that i will experience temp's below -5C...

So, has anyone looked at these systems and is anyone using one of them?

Posted Sunday 16 Aug 2009 @ 1:48:55 pm from IP #
Sunshine
Member

pummers,

I think the Hills and Apricus evacuated tube systems are similiar as the water only travels through the manifold at the top, and not through the heat tubes.
I haven't seen an efficiency comparison between a U shaped evacuated tube against a round one.

Posted Sunday 16 Aug 2009 @ 10:56:29 pm from IP #
Benny
Member

The evacuated tube isn't U shaped sunshine. The ET is just a standard glass cylindrical ET. They use a U shaped copper tube placed inside the inner glass tube to collect the heat. Cold water is pumped through the copper tube and is directly heated as it goes down, around the u bend and back out to a collection manifold then on to the tank. They have an Aluminium heat sink connected to the utube as well to improve heat transfer in to the pipe. I guess the advantage is that this is much easier to manufacture than the heat pipes that Apricus etal tend to use - anybody can make up a copper u tube and weld in to a header manifold - even Australians.
The web site is a little misleading (as usual) in that when you read it it sounds like the copper u tube technology has been "proven" to be the worlds most efficient collector - but I'm sure what they are referring to here is the absorber on the inner glass tube. I don't think there'd be much difference in overall efficiency between the utube and heat pipe methods. I don't believe anyones claims of "most efficient" unles they publish the actual results.
There's even another version coming out of china now where they just have empty ET's connected directly to a header/manifold tank and rely on thermal convection to circulate the heated water out of the tubes and in to the tank. The water completely fills the tubes - which is a bit scary as if a tube ever breaks you lose all the water.

Maybe using the Utube system would be good in one way in that it looks like they are manufactured here - maybe just importing the ET's ? A Utube system might be the easiest for a DIY system too, when you can get the ET's for only about $10 each.

Posted Monday 17 Aug 2009 @ 12:39:52 am from IP #
Greenozi
Member

Benny, I like this arguments always rose against ET technology with water directly circulation due to thermal convection inside the tube. What happened if glass tube brake? 1. How that possibly could happen? Meteorite strike? Fallen space debris or airplane fallen on your house. That could be disaster indeed to lose all 180L water storage in your water tank and your water sinking into crater where once stood your house. If you saw one if this tubes, and even if you

Posted Monday 17 Aug 2009 @ 1:37:59 am from IP #
pummers
Member

Benny,
The comparisson I was looking at came out of Germany, if I find it again I will provide the link. You are correct with the inner absorber coating, it is the coating originally developed by Sydney Uni about 20yrs ago and has been improved since, it has been widely used in europe but not here until recently.

Posted Monday 17 Aug 2009 @ 12:07:31 pm from IP #
micko
Member

U tube systems do perform well but because the pipe is only about 6mm internal diameter they can easily block up with scale over time. Also if the system stagnates large volumes of steam can result which can damage the systems U tube pipe itself. This has been the experience in NZ. Heat pipe systems are slightly less efficient but more reliable. Also U tube systems come as a complete panel and are a pain to transport and get onto the roof.

In terms of DIY you can only get rebates (RECs) for systems that are Australia Standards (ASNZS2712:2007) approved and have had RECS performance modelling completed. Also you may have issues with plumbing permits for products that are not watermark approved.

The cost thing you need to look at the cost of the complete collector, so manifold, heat pipes, tubes and frame, not just the tubes. 10 USD per tube would be less than manufacturing cost for a complete collector.

Posted Monday 12 Oct 2009 @ 3:55:37 pm from IP #
Greenozi
Member

Question about compulsory 70C boosting/heating.
I can see reason for boosting temperature in hot cylinders (specifically open, no pressure type) that supply water directly to tap, but I why (if?) the same requirements apply for cylinders with heat exchanger inside?
If the water inside the copper pipe always remains under main pressure and is chlorinated, have any chance to grow bacteria? If water stay at 45C at cloudy day it could be inconvenience for user but is that poses any risk?

Posted Monday 12 Oct 2009 @ 11:27:35 pm from IP #
dymonite69
Member

A couple interesting articles:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2094925

http://www.tno.nl/downloads/LegionellaPaperTNO_IEA26.pdf

Posted Tuesday 13 Oct 2009 @ 12:28:25 am from IP #
Sunshine
Member

The minimum hot water storage temperature stated in AS3500.4.2 Clause 1.6 shall be not less than 60º C to inhibit the growth of legionella bacteria.
If the solar hot water system heats up water above this temperature every 24 hours, then there shouldn't a need to have electric boost on.
I know my system stays piping hot, even on a cloudy or rainy day, hence no boost is required.

Posted Tuesday 13 Oct 2009 @ 6:33:31 am from IP #

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