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Solar Panel Group Buy

(105 posts) (17 voices)

Started 1 year ago by Inevitable
Latest reply from Inevitable

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Inevitable
Member

Following from another post we thought it would be beneficial to post up an option for people to buy into a group purchase of a container of pv panels. The advantages are obvious, cost, hassle and cost. I will be happy to facilitate the spec, ordering, shipping providing we hit a qty of at least 20" otherwise it becomes less cost effective and the admin is chaotic.

All I need is qty, panel type required, email and location.

Some basics: (Please read)

1. 100% payment up front. - unfair to the rest if one person is mucking about.
2. The panels will be delivered to the most central location for all buyers.
3. I'm giving my own time to do this, in return when you become multi-national solar companies think of us when you are buying MW's
4. The post will expire in 2 weeks.
5. The panel range is 180w, 185w, 190w Mono. Strongly recommend 185w. Prices better.
6. Minimum quantity is 40 panels (except Franks as this was inspired by him)
7. I will post the two best panel offers. I will only post brands I have personally dealt with and have Chubb Insurance, IEC/TUV/CEC. No red dragon stuff. Please do not ask for cheap and nasty. They will be cheap but I will only import quality.

If this goes well I will consider doing this monthly.

Posted Thursday 27 Jan 2011 @ 4:10:15 am from IP #
Greenozi
Member

Re. 1. What is then initial investment needed for your 40 panels 185W delivered to Brisbane area? (including all taxes ,freight etc

Posted Thursday 27 Jan 2011 @ 4:29:00 am from IP #
Inevitable
Member

The numbers will depend on how many people jump in but to give you an idea based on a 40":

Panels: US1.7 - US1.73 per watt. Add on 0.02 for delivery, freight insurance.
It might be cheaper. Just depends on our timing.

Australian Port Charges AUD$ 560.00 (+GST) Approx
Delivery Order Fee AUD$ 75.00 (+GST)
Sea Cargo Automation AUD$ 20.00 (+GST)
CMR Fee AUD$ 20.00 (+GST)
Security Surcharge AUD$ 15.00 (+GST)
Customs Entry Audit Fee AUD$ 20.00 (+GST)
Customs Clearance AUD$ 160.00 (+GST)
Local Delivery AUD$ 400.00 (+GST)
Fuel Surcharge AUD$ 48.00 (+GST)
Customs Duties/GST Duty Free / GST as charged
Quarantine Unlikely but I'll build something in to cover it.

So your 40 x 185 x (ave 1.73 inc freight) US12,802 (+GST) This will get them to port.
Based on a 40" you would be ordering 5% of the total load so you would pay 5% of the total of the customs + local delivery as above.

The reason for 100% is if we do deposits then when it comes time to settle and all but one pay up then the whole shipment is delayed (not cheap) and those who did pay on time get messed around. Easier to keep it simple.

As for delivery to Brisbane, I'd prefer to have them ship here as my neighbour is ordering but we can work that part out. I think for simplicity we should state that this is East coast. Costs to truck them up or down are fairly reasonable. Alternatively if we have enough we can do 20/40" containers for each city. But so far we have 2 for Brissy.

Posted Thursday 27 Jan 2011 @ 9:01:05 am from IP #
stevieholden
Member

yes please. 1 or 2 or 3 even.

please mail me at stevieholden@yahoo.com anf im at tooowoomba, qld.

thank you.

Posted Thursday 27 Jan 2011 @ 8:55:51 pm from IP #
Inevitable
Member

Thanks Stevie, I have sent you an email.

D

Posted Friday 28 Jan 2011 @ 5:46:33 am from IP #
franks
Member

Inevitable, where would the container be landed in OZ if we go ahead?

Posted Friday 28 Jan 2011 @ 5:50:02 am from IP #
Inevitable
Member

at the moment Franks it looks like Brisbane is the most central location.
I received a suggestion that perhaps it would be better to do this state by state as ultimately it will average out as Sydney if we have Vic buyers. So, in the interests of following good advice this can become a Qld import. We can have a Vic and a NSW one as well.

There was also a suggestion that we should name the panel from the beginning otherwise people might pull out if they wanted a specific brand etc etc. So I'll be posting the panel specs tmrw. There are currently two options that are up to spec and offering the best prices. One is our own primary supplier and the other is a rather tasty US panel that I've been dying to get over here. More tmrw...

Posted Friday 28 Jan 2011 @ 6:37:22 am from IP #
cava
Member

Possibly interested when the house, which is on the market, sells. However, I am also interested in batteries and inverter for a stand alone setup.

Melbourne based.

Posted Friday 28 Jan 2011 @ 1:46:02 pm from IP #
Lumbuck Thornton
Member

Has commonwealth subsidy been effected under the cover of a proposed flood tax?

Posted Friday 28 Jan 2011 @ 9:19:36 pm from IP #
sun2steam
Member

Which commonwealth subsidy?

Posted Friday 28 Jan 2011 @ 9:31:28 pm from IP #
solar brisbane
Member

I think Lumbuck is referring to the reduction or capping of the solar hot water rebate.
I dont think that the RECS are affected at this stage. Knowing this government it could all change next week with no notice.

Posted Saturday 29 Jan 2011 @ 12:48:22 am from IP #
sun2steam
Member

Well, but RECs are not a government subsidy as they are payed by the power provider, and the hot water rebate is not for PV anyway.

Posted Saturday 29 Jan 2011 @ 12:54:30 am from IP #
magbusser
Member

Just as a comparison you can currently purchase 185W Sun-Earth panels from the local warehouses in Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and Perth for AUD 425 plus GST and freight. ($2.527 per KW). 40 panels will therefore cost AUD 18700 inc plus freight ex warehouse. There is a considerable saving here of upto 0.60c per KW depending on the final buy price.

Posted Saturday 29 Jan 2011 @ 4:22:01 am from IP #
swanning_it
Member

I'd be interested. Gold Coast.

Interest is conditional on panel brand, final price and establishing Inevitables bona fides (no insult intended, just common sense).

e: scantec1 at bogpond dot com (replace bogpond with bigpond)

Posted Saturday 29 Jan 2011 @ 5:26:19 am from IP #
matas
Member

The group buy is a good idea, and nothing personal against Inevitable.
But I am worried by the slight possiblility that if I give a lot of money to someone I don't know, it may disappear (before it gets to the panel manufacturer).
Just wondering if there are any ways to prevent this possibility ?
I am willing to take my chances with the company in China, just as long as the money gets to them.

Posted Saturday 29 Jan 2011 @ 5:26:40 am from IP #
Inevitable
Member

lol, no no I get you mate. I am part of a global company that does this every day except we do it in blocks of MW's. This is my own wee contribution back to the community, but we will use the company channels and accounts to get it done. Therefore it's probably not a bad idea to get you some details and references from my clients, suppliers etc etc. As much as you are generally anonymous on this site I no longer can be!

Ok, in the meantime you can check out the company site: http://www.inevitablesolar.com
If you want to look me up on the net I'd highly recommend LinkedIn as the best resource:
****** * ****** - if you're in SEQLD chances are we'll know someone in common or we'll have exchanged passing nods at traffic lights.

As for security of funds its usually not an issue for anyone with an ABN as it will go through ours but each person will be signing a purchase order and contract of purchase which I will then co-sign. Essentially we will be treating each order as an entity.
It keeps everything simple and above board. As for transfer receipt everyone gets one as standard as well as an update on progress. As I said before the time taken on this will be my own and unpaid so please make it easy for me!

Posted Saturday 29 Jan 2011 @ 12:12:08 pm from IP #
matas
Member

Thanks for that information inevitable.
Much appreciated.
"the time taken on this will be my own and unpaid"
thats a lot of work and responsibility you are taking on.

Just wondering about this idea :
We pay a 10 or 15% markup, so you can make a good profit.
Say $2/watt delivered to a wharehouse in Australia
We pay a 10% deposit.
You purchase the container load (using the logistics and experience of your multinational company).
The panels remain your property, until we pay the balance and organise pickup.
Also, what about lowering the minimum order (to 8 panels say), because I am sure you would get many more applicants and higher total orders.

Posted Saturday 29 Jan 2011 @ 11:09:20 pm from IP #
Greenozi
Member

matas: "Just wondering about this idea :
We pay a 10 or 15% markup, so you can make a good profit."
Wrong.
If you are buying as a group responsibility and risk is spread over.
Otherwise you ask Inevitable to be one more importer that sell you product at unrealistically low prices. But at the same time he is responsible for all aspects- warranty, claims, compliance and risk etc.You are going to sue him 15 years after deal for faults etc. Unless Inevitable has suicidal mood he is not going to accept your proposal.

Posted Sunday 30 Jan 2011 @ 2:58:55 am from IP #
swanning_it
Member

Thanks for the link Declan. Much appreciated.

So from your links, the phone book, ASIC, Google maps and your LinkedIn profile I can see you are the global sales director for Inevitable, which is not a company but a Qld registered business with two arms, solar and web design/marketing with your global head office in a suburban Brisbane house. I see you are a young(ish) guy with no solar work background and the panels are chinese mono badged "inevitable" with a 17% module (panel?) efficiency.

From the outset, matas would seem justified with his questions, but you have been very open with the links provided, so perhaps without any inuendo or insult intended, may I ask whether we are permitted to suggest to you, that yes, the bulk buy sounds good and yes, I'm still interested (even in the base figure suggested of 40 panels) but something probably needs to be done about security of supply. Based on your assumed costings given previously, a 40' container order would be in the vicinity of $240 000 + import duty + GST. A considerable amount of money in anyones terms. An ABN means nothing really but a trust account with LC terms for the Chinese maufacturer (I don't know too many Chinese who won't accept LC for bulk orders) and as we would effectively be financial partners rather than clients, all costings (including LC fees and your markup/profit) would be exposed for transparency, would seem to remove any lingering doubt as to the ethical handling of the cash (both in and outside of Australia).

What's your thoughts on that?

Posted Sunday 30 Jan 2011 @ 3:15:02 am from IP #
matas
Member

I found all the same things as swanning_it.
The alibaba.com company profile say 11-50 employess, but only gives a post office box (in Ashgrove).
The trustpass profile says "This member's company information has not been authenticated or verified by Alibaba.com or any other third party"
http://www.alibaba.com/member/au106540909/aboutus.html
Every company I have dealt with on Alibaba.com has been able to give a street address and has their information checked.
The white pages address doesn't look like a commercial address.

Maybe I am being paranoid but I am thinking, why would a person who makes a living out of importing large amounts of panels and inverters, turn up and manage a group buy for us, for free ?

Posted Sunday 30 Jan 2011 @ 3:51:59 am from IP #
matas
Member

inevitable writes
"I am part of a global company that does this every day except we do it in blocks of MW's. This is my own wee contribution back to the community, but we will use the company channels and accounts to get it done"

I'm sure.
Perhaps we could see some evidence of these "MW's" of imports, or even an invoice for one container.

"If this goes well I will consider doing this monthly. "

dreamland.

Posted Sunday 30 Jan 2011 @ 4:02:13 am from IP #
magbusser
Member

My concern is with regards to warranty. The standard manufacturers warranty is for 5 years and on reading the warranty statement shipping cost to return the faulty item to China and return may be paid for by the Solar Company. I dont think so returns are usually met by the buyer with the supplier paying one way only. What is the cost to return a faulty panel back to China? How long will the replacement panels take to return to Austalia and by what method. What if you are NOT located near a seaport? The cost of return can be quite high. Some Chinese panels imported from reputable supplies have already shown signs of yellowing and drop in perfomance after only 12 months. If panels are purchased from a local company then they take on the warranty servicing and risk. The discount offered on a bulk buy may not be worth it in the long run if panels fail and have to be returned. Buyer Beware

Posted Sunday 30 Jan 2011 @ 4:31:41 am from IP #
peta
Member

... I'd be concerned that Ineviatable doesn't know feet from inches symbols, and not just once ...Why?... Importing 20/40 foot ... containers isn't just a mistake or typo if your doing this on a daily basis..... OH and who is to say that the picture you see of said named "Declan F Maguire" is really who he says he is?

Posted Sunday 30 Jan 2011 @ 5:24:50 am from IP #
gringo
Member

Must agree with Peta, certainly common business practice would be to set up C.o.d with our money being held in trust ie reputable Solicitor or even banking institution offering a letter of credit on the consignment, therefore ensuring all above board and transparent.Iam interested in buying 40 panels but only in this format. you know the adage "if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is"

Posted Sunday 30 Jan 2011 @ 5:54:15 am from IP #
peta
Member

What is the INCO term for the international purchase VS the terms offered to the local purchasing individual, not forgetting the T&C of the B/L.
Gringo's suggestion retains control for the purchaser, however Ineviatble proposes all risk transfered to the purchaser. Be very very careful, as someone once said to me when a warning is politley issued ...ARMS FLAILING WILDLY!
..funny that person was half my age for the TV show that this pertained to... but humoured me just the same :))

Posted Sunday 30 Jan 2011 @ 6:16:19 am from IP #
matas
Member

gringo says "money being held in trust ie reputable Solicitor or even banking institution"
Yes thats exactly what I was thinking would be best.

peta says "doesn't know feet from inches symbols"
good point, I missed that, but I really do need glasses. I can hardly see the difference.

magbusser "My concern is with regards to warranty"
I almost take the attitude that if you get them at a low price and they are working to start with,
then I will take the chance.
And not bother making a warranty claim. Just replace them.
They are a very mature technology now.
They are approved and supposedly passed international testing standards.
Out of all the hundreds of thousands of panels imported, you don't hear a lot of failure stories.
I have heard the yellowing reports, but I think that may be cosmetic.
Actually the main failures reports I have read in forums, have been expensive Sharp panels.
I have doubts whether a warranty offered by a local supplier would be all that much more useful in the long term anyway.

Posted Sunday 30 Jan 2011 @ 6:20:54 am from IP #
peta
Member

.. the difference is if you do this everyday - it would not be a mistake you make.. as it would just be mechanical on the keyboard... did it for like 20yrs.
.... just picking up on some smaller signs of ......while the bigger ones get discussed.

Posted Sunday 30 Jan 2011 @ 6:28:06 am from IP #
peta
Member

......- if you're in SEQLD chances are we'll know someone in common or we'll have exchanged passing nods at traffic lights.

.. yeh right.

Posted Sunday 30 Jan 2011 @ 6:29:17 am from IP #
Inevitable
Member

Jesus, this is getting out of control!
Try to do a good thing and my privacy gets thrown to the wolves.
I'm up for any suggestions as to the most efficient and secure way to get this to work.

This will now be a QLD only purchase because I'm over being super accommodating.
And secondly there is no way in hell I'll be doing this gratis now, what was I thinking?

It's up to the time when we go for a group email. I'm happy to provide any references or details required but first we meet face to face and you sign a confidentiality agreement.

I suppose I cannot blame people for being a big sus, but being a good guy doesn't pay these days does it.

EMAIL ME: dec@inevitablesolar.com

Posted Sunday 30 Jan 2011 @ 6:30:36 am from IP #
peta
Member

Posted Sunday 30 Jan 2011 @ 6:33:27 am from IP #

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