Hi,
I have signed up for Solar Power 1.5kW system where I was told it would cover all my electricity usage and have a bill close to zero dollars. I have heard a few rumours about how energy providers buy back the power very cheap and sell energy from the grid (like at night time) at inflated prices as you need to go on a new energy plan.
I am currently with AGL and live in Hampton Park in VIC. Is there anyone here who has installed Solar Power and can give me any feedback to the pricing etc.
Thanks in advance.
VIC Solar power system - is it beneficial?
(204 posts) (24 voices)-
El123
MemberPosted Tuesday 19 Apr 2011 @ 10:41:42 am from IP # -
sunbeam
MemberHi there. I am in Coburg with Australian Energy, As i am having a 1.5kw system installed soon, I enquired with AE about what plan i would be put on once i was generating power into the grid. Their answer was immediate: No change from my existing rate plan ie 72cents per day supply charge, 16.7 cents per kwh 24/7, and 60cents nett feed in tariff.
Simply Energy who came to my door same day offered me 68cents feed in but a peak time (7am-11pm)M-F rate of around 42cents per kwhr, with 11.5cents for all other times and around 76 cents per day supply charge. Based on a realistic nett output of around maybe 3-5 kwhr per day I think i will be much better off with AE and save the hassle of changing contracts.
Does anyone else have some current rates from other companies? I noticed the ATA figures on rates are now about 18 months old; has there been any major change in pricing that anyone is aware of?
Posted Tuesday 19 Apr 2011 @ 11:35:03 pm from IP # -
G'day EL123
"I was told it would cover all my electricity usage and have a bill close to zero dollars."
For someone to make a statement like that they would have to know your current power bills/consumption.
A 1.5kWp system will produce up to 8kWh per day in sunny weather, so if your last 4 power bills are equal to or less than that you should have a very low electricity bill.
If however the installer did not see your power usage than they are guessing.
Posted Wednesday 20 Apr 2011 @ 12:50:16 am from IP # -
Hi El123 and sunbeam,
Yes, Rockabye is right, how much it reduces your bill will depend on:
- the size of the PV system;
- your level of elctricity consumption in the house;
- when you consume electricity in the house.As an example, if you use 10kWh per day, and your system generates 5 kWh per day, and critically, you consume 5 of those 10kWh when the PV system is generating, then you will be using the PV generated electricity in the house, and won't be exporting anything into the grid, and therefore not benefiting from any feed-in tariff. This would be unlikely to see your bills reduce to zero.
If however, you consumed your 10kWh at night time, not when the PV system was generating, and all of the 5kWh from the PV went into the grid, you could get credited the feed-in tariff for it, and see your bills reduce dramatically. This would be the case in Victoria, SA, WA, QLD and Tasmania. The idea is that you aren't using much electricity in the house during the day.
A quick analysis of your bills and an understanding of when you use energy will be able to tell you how much you can likely beneft from any feed-in tariff.
Hope that helps, Damien.
Posted Wednesday 20 Apr 2011 @ 5:31:49 am from IP # -
hamish05
MemberEL123. It would seem that you have been acquainted with the Solar "Cowboys", Oh dear another one! Whoever sold you the 1.5 kw/h unit should have explained in detail and in writing, (that you can understand clearly), exactly the system performance and what you can and cannot expect.
Please download the Clean Energy Council Consumer Guide from http://WWW.cleanenergycouncil.org.au and please please read and understand it in its entirety before you order anything. Also make sure you follow their recommendations, to not do so, will inevitably lead to heartache and disappointment.
Also to understand how much PV generation you can expect to generate in your suburb Post code 3976 have a look at https://www.energymatters.com.au/home-solar-power/quote.php You only need to put in your post code and it will generate the information u need (bar chart by month and in figures.)
Posted Wednesday 20 Apr 2011 @ 7:10:39 am from IP # -
sunbeam
MemberUnfortunately I won't be going ahead with my 1.5kw install as the price of the local bulk buy system has today gone from 2.3k to $3.9k due to the 33% drop in value of RECs/STCs in the last few days. Apparently they are now worth only $24 because the market is being flooded with them as people take up pvs prior to 30 June.
Posted Wednesday 20 Apr 2011 @ 10:54:42 am from IP # -
It is interesting the economic side of solar power.
At $2.3K you will be paying $0.63/day over 10 years for your system. At $3.9K that will rise to $1.07/day. Less than the price of a newspaper for 'free' electricity. Current price of electricity is about $1.70/day for 8kWh.
Of course power prices will have risen by much more in 10 years so you will be paying an extra $2-$3/day anyway. So why not do it? You will be paying less in the long run if you do.
Posted Wednesday 20 Apr 2011 @ 7:43:57 pm from IP # -
sunbeam
MemberYes i understand the long term economics of going ahead. I average 5.2 kwh daily use, so i know i could get some nett feed in return most days, but its the extra dosh i dont have at the moment. $2.3k was doable but I'm not really in the position to spend $3.8k.
Crystal ball anyone? What is the longer term outlook for pricing of systems, if the recs values go up later in the year while the multiplier effect has dropped to 4? Could it be cheaper to go ahead say in 6 months time?
Now Ive got over the initial shock/dismay I will do some sums and check my likely tax return.Posted Wednesday 20 Apr 2011 @ 9:53:36 pm from IP # -
Have a look at this company Sunbeam. They may be able to help.
http://www.energymatters.com.au/government-rebates/low-interest-solar-loans.php
Posted Wednesday 20 Apr 2011 @ 10:53:39 pm from IP # -
oldbill
MemberHi
Not knowing a lot about solar I was wondering if a question I have could be answered
I have purchased a 1.5kw system it was installed on the 8th, tested and then switched off
waiting for the meter to be upgraded changed or whatever it is they do.
My question is the installer left some paperwork in the meter box and said someone would come and get it in 2 or 3 days.
This paperwork is still sitting in the meter box
Is this the norm?
Also how long does it usually take to have the meter done and the system turned on.Posted Thursday 21 Apr 2011 @ 12:05:54 am from IP # -
hamish05
Memberoldbill, the paperwork will be there until the installation is inspected. Mine took 3 days. U sound a little like EL123, the "solar cowboys" have let u down. Have you contacted whoever sold/installed you your system and asked why?
Please do yourself a favor as I suggested to EL123 ... download the Clean Energy Council Consumer Guide from http://WWW.cleanenergycouncil.org.au Read and understand it . Also make sure you follow their guidelines, as I said b4, to not do so, will inevitably lead to heartache and disappointment.
Posted Thursday 21 Apr 2011 @ 5:46:34 am from IP # -
oldbill
MemberThanks Hamish
I purchased my system through Tru Energy as they are the retailer I use
So I assumed everything would go well
I will send them an email and ask why the paperwork is still there,
Although as Its now Easter I guess theres another 5 days or so before anything happensOnce again thanks
Posted Thursday 21 Apr 2011 @ 6:47:47 am from IP # -
hamish05
MemberI hope that you have some success "oldbill"
My 3.0 kW system installed on Feb10 has generated 812 kWhs so far. (12kWh today - 3kWh yesterday) Pretty good performance, given our cloudy weather since my installation. But it makes you look at the clouds a lot and wish them away.
I am extremely happy with my choice of system and the people that sold and installed it.
Email: euan@giveusago.com.au they will never be the cheapest, but are very reliable and available. Importantly they are accredited with the Clean Energy Council.Good luck with yours.
Posted Thursday 21 Apr 2011 @ 10:35:43 am from IP # -
sunbeam
MemberThanks for the info about the loans and how to look at the pVs as an ongoing long term earner. Im starting to think that though the price looks expensive now it and is, compared to recent offers, it may well look like a cheap investment in a few years. I have included some info from GreenEnergy blog which has changed my mind especially the last sentence.
" 1. Why have prices fallen? – Solar PV is proving to be very popular particularly at prices of $2000 to $3000 net cost to customer for a 1.5 kW system which have been regularly advertised in mainstream commercial media. As a result significant numbers of systems are being installed and submitted to create STCs. As an example for the month of March 2011 more than 30,000 systems, representing 5.3 million certificates were submitted to the regulator for registration. There are now more than enough STCs available to meet the first quarters target of 9.8 million when only a month or so ago most people expected that the first quarter’s target (35% of the annual target of 28 million) would not be achieved. As a result of the large oversupply building and the expectation that the 28 million target will be significantly exceeded the STC wholesale price has continued to fall to around $30 for May settlement.2. What will happen to STC prices? – we can expect that the wholesale STC price will remain under pressure if a significant surplus of STCs continues to develop. While forecasting prices is fraught with difficulty there are several observations we can make:
* Prices will remain weak until the level of PV installations claiming STCs starts to fall;
* Large numbers of systems sold under the attractive NSW gross feed-in-tariff regime in 2010 are being installed in 2011 and it will take a bit of time to get these through the system; and
* There is growing anticipation that the Minister will further reduce the Solar Credits multiplier from 1 July 2011 to take some heat out of the market."
Posted Thursday 21 Apr 2011 @ 10:42:15 am from IP # -
sunbeam
MemberCW NSW , I read it as a further reduction than dropping the multiplier effect to times 4 to cool off the demand and the cost to the govt. It fits with all the early softening up of the electorate by the govt thats going on at present.
Posted Thursday 21 Apr 2011 @ 9:12:50 pm from IP # -
El123
MemberHi everyone,
Thanks so much for replying to my question. The system size I signed up for is 1.52kW and is costing me $2490/=. I'm also getting a free "Wireless Energy Monitor" (whatever that is).
I usually don't use much power. My consumption is between 5kWh and 6kWh per day (with energy bills around $170/= per quarter). So I am confident that I will be generating close to or over my usage.
My issue is with the energy providers. As I am after the best possible solar buyback I can get.
[Sunbeam, I appreciate the Australian Energy & Simply Energy rates you have listed - this is brilliant!]
Are there any solar energy comparison websites like "goswitch"??? Or does anyone else have any further rate comparison pricing?Posted Friday 22 Apr 2011 @ 5:18:26 am from IP # -
sunbeam
MemberHi El123, I use the same amount of electricity as you. Based on that I think i may have a credit owing in 12 mths time. ATA have a premium feed in guide for Victoria here: http://www.ata.org.au/projects-and-advocacy/feed-in-tariff-for-solar-systems/ata-national-feed-in-tariff-retailer-survey/
I just noticed that my current supplier AE do not give back any credit and i lose any I have after being in credit for 12mths. If you go to that site you can download the PDF.
Just another great resource from ATA. As an ATA member i encourage everyone interested in renewables to join.Plenty of info, great magazine, good online discounts and enables this forum to prosper.
As far as individual payment plans from suppliers I am emailing them (can't afford the mobile charges) for payment plans info. Its like walking through wet concrete.Posted Friday 22 Apr 2011 @ 11:12:19 pm from IP # -
hamish05
Membersunbeam. Be careful, the rates/conditions on the ATA website date back to late 2009.
Some company's have a section on their web site which outline their Solar rates and policy.
I cant believe that a Billing Company can pocket any money you have in credit. That's extortion, or immoral at best.
I agree with your comments re the ATA. "GET ON BOARD EVERYONE"
Posted Saturday 23 Apr 2011 @ 1:01:10 am from IP # -
hamish05
MemberI just had a look at my billers Solar Agreement, nothing about surrendering any credit that may apply.. I don't know why they wouldn't just send you a refund, without the fuss.
I If, at the conclusion of the Billing Period immediately following each anniversary of Your Premium Feed-In Contract, the Premium Feed-In Credit which is applicable to You in that period exceeds Your Electricity Charges on Your Bill by $10.00 or greater, Red Energy will, upon Your request, pay You an amount equal to the difference between those two amounts within 30 Business Days in accordance with Your instructions.
Posted Saturday 23 Apr 2011 @ 1:30:49 am from IP # -
sunbeam
MemberHamish05, I was just going off the ATA infosheet for want of any more updated info on PFIT.
The info even if outdated flabbergasted me.
Q.Is any excess paid out after 12mths
A. No
Q What happens to any excess credit not paid out?
A.Any excess credit is extinguished after 12mths.I agree with you that this not only immoral but borders on theft.
Most suppliers do pay out credit (some charge fees though). I am pursuing this with AE at the moment. Will provide answers if i get any.
Maybe AE will change its approach now that it has been bought by Truenergy.TruEnergy do pay out credits. I am assuming that the takeover applies to the Victorian customer base not just NSW.Posted Saturday 23 Apr 2011 @ 4:48:56 am from IP # -
hamish05
MemberHow difficult would it be to sent refunds for all accounts once a year regardless?
I wonder if you accumulate a sizable credit each year (mine maybe about $450) and then attempt to change retailers for a better deal, how will you be treated. Would another retailer want your account? Their business is built around retail sales, not refunding people with PV systems.
Posted Saturday 23 Apr 2011 @ 5:08:21 am from IP # -
sunbeam
MemberThis from EnergyMatters website:
Is an income from a feed in tariff taxable?
At this point, there doesn't appear to be any specific taxation legislation dealing with income derived from feed in tariffs. Whether it is assessable income depends on the income producing nature of the activity. If it can be demonstrated that the system was installed with a view to making a profit, then receipts under the feed in tariff would be considered assessable income while all expenses associated with the income generating activity would be deductible (eg depreciation).
In most cases, systems installed at domestic sites would not be taxable as they would be considered personal use / hobby (i.e. not in the nature of a business or profit making scheme). If the system is installed at a commercial site, it will most likely be considered taxable. However, system owners should consult their accountant for advice or can also request a private ruling from the ATO. An example of an ATO private ruling result in relation to feed in tariffs can be viewed here
Feed in tariff income and social security
According to a May 2010 announcement from Centrelink, feed in tariff credits where applied as a credit on an electricity account are not included in Centrelink's income test for pensioners, but credits converted to cash payments such as a cheque or direct deposit will be. The adjusted policy applies from 14 May 2010 and is relevant to not just pensions, but all Social Security income support payments such as NewStart. However, we are still unclear if this applies to payments such as Family Tax Allowance and Parenting Payments. We are currently seeking clarification and advise people who may be affected should consult with their local Centrelink Office.
Posted Monday 25 Apr 2011 @ 10:22:09 pm from IP # -
El123
Membersunbeam, Thanks for pointing me to the retailer feed in tariff survey. Thats great info. So much to consider.
With regards to if it is taxable - a friend of a friend put solar and was complaining that it would be taxable. But when I looked into it, it appears that it is not taxable. And I believe it is taxable only if you have a home business (or put it on any commercial or investment property) where you would actually claim the cost of installing the PV system from tax. Then whatever money you get from it turns into an income. So a system should not be taxed if it is domestic use.
hamish05, Do you find that with your system that the energy retailer charges an inflated price for energy that is used from the grid? Did they automatically change you to a different energy plan?
Posted Tuesday 26 Apr 2011 @ 12:27:16 am from IP # -
hamish05
MemberEI123, When considering the installation of Solar PV I fully understood what I was going to pay on Red Energy's Solar plan and did my numbers accordingly. The plan for Solar is notionally different to the general domestic plan I have been on for ever. Having my whole house on "Of Peak Tariff" at night, all weekend and public holidays makes the mix and consequently our usage patterns, totally different. (which is what it is meant to do)
The one aspect of pricing that did disappoint me was the 18% difference between 2010 and 2011 pricing. If that rate of change continues, I will be breaking even in about 5 years. This increase will reduce my return this year, I estimate by $100 ,
In a few years, a lot of people that are installing small Solar PV systems that only supplement their usage, will find that they will in fact pay more than they otherwise would have had they not installed a PV system.
I think the power company's are conspiring to protect their business by heavily advertising the 1.5 kW/h systems. It's in the full knowledge that in a few short years their income/return will increase substantially. After-all their core business is making a profit from selling electricity. I have a friend that the Origin Energy Rep wasn't interested in talking to, because he wanted to install a system bigger than 1.5 kW/h.
In regard to my Solar plan, yes, Red Energy did advise me in writing twice. First, was after I enquired about some other issues that I needed to better understand before installation, and then again after I had been connected to the grid. Also it is clearly setout on their web site, as I suspect most retailers do.
Posted Tuesday 26 Apr 2011 @ 3:27:54 am from IP # -
sunbeam
MemberEnergy Australia got back to me about refunding any credit owing on pfit:
Dear Mr Hall,Thankyou for contacting Energy Australia.
You can request the credit refund at any time.
This can be refunded by cheque or if you supply bank
details we can direct deposit to your nominated bank
account. Please note that we are not able to refund
the Solar credit to a credit card.Should you require any further information or
assistance, please contact our Customer Service Centre
on 13 15 35 (Residential) or 13 13 67 (Business) from
8am to 8pm Monday to Friday or Saturday 8.30am to
12noon.Yours sincerely
Marilyn Moore
EnergyAustralia------------------------------------------------
Summary of your request
------------------------------------------------DATE: 23/04/2011 02:21:11 PM
COMMENTS: IF I HAVE A CREDIT AFTER 12MTHS OF SOLAR
POWER INPUT FROM MY HOME, DO YOU REFUND ANY CREDITS
AND IF SO IS IT BY CHEQUE, CASH OR DIRECT DEBIT?
I AM AN EXISTING VICTORIAN CUSTOMER AND WILL BE
PRODUCING POWER VIA PV SOLAR SYSTEM.Posted Thursday 28 Apr 2011 @ 1:51:31 am from IP # -
sunbeam
MemberTruEnergy got back to me today by mail with an assortment of papers.
Charges for Go Easy Solar plan is below. They do not include GST.
Electricity Supply Charge is $18.56 per month which works out at around $0.62 per day.
Peak Usage is 30.94 Cents per kWh
Off Peak Usage is 12.32 cents per kWh
Buy Back rate is 66 cents per kWh
3% discount offered for electricity consumed from Tru Energy to be applied to the above prices for paying by the due date. This is not payable if you are in credit with your account.Posted Friday 29 Apr 2011 @ 8:00:04 am from IP #
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