Has anybody looked at doing or done this course? I'm thinking about doing it but the info seems a little wishy washy as to what equipment/software is required. I know you need to register an ABN, get public liability and professional indemnity insurance and register with ABSA but surely there is equipment necessary to complete the job.
Home Sustainability Assessments
(202 posts) (46 voices)-
Eco
MemberMy understanding is that not much is required for doing the assessments. No software to buy (might need a spreadsheet program - don't know). You input data from the inspections over the Internet into the green loans database. It is then analysed by their software. Probably need an electronic tape measure (Laser $150 to $200) as you need to measure up rooms. Non contact thermometer ($50 - $150), digital camera (optional). Powermeter (optional). Everything else cheap - bucket and stopwatch for shower flow rate, compass to determine house orientation, immersion thermometer (perhaps).
Posted Saturday 19 Sep 2009 @ 6:52:04 am from IP # -
Hi,
I have done the course.
There is actually no software yet. All you have to do is to pencil the data into a book. And after the assessment you have to type the date into a form on the Green Loan's web page.
The problem is that you have to gather so many data (counting light bulbs and so on ...)that there is hardly any time for talks to the owner.Otherwise , what Eco said is spot on.
Oh, and I forgot that you have to pay, pay, pay! (course, ABSA membership, insurance)
Posted Sunday 20 Sep 2009 @ 10:38:25 am from IP # -
Eco
MemberI also did the course but haven’t commenced the inspections yet.
I have two concerns about the program. Firstly the fact that the software hadn’t been finalised – as pointed out by Sun2steam. So I was thinking that people I did the inspection for would not get the report and therefore the approval to get the green loan for perhaps a significant period after the inspection – which would be a problem. I think someone on this forum was having an inspection done so they could get an approval for a loan for a PV system. It would be interesting to hear their experience so far.
The second concern was the inspection book. A lot of data - is it all necessary. Takes a lot of the time which could be used to more fully look at all the issues of the house and discussing them with the householder.
Don’t get me wrong. The Green Loans program and the free sustainability inspections is a wonderful concept – upgrading the existing housing stock is where real GHG savings can be made. However it would have been better if all these issues had been worked out prior to commencement.
Posted Monday 21 Sep 2009 @ 10:53:16 am from IP # -
Eco,
This is exactly my critique of the program.
It is unfinished and appears to be rushed-through.Also the sheer number of questions with the majority on relative peanuts like light bulbs is distracting from the priorities in regard of energy saving in homes.
Saving energy at home is actually quite simple in Australia where heating is actually not as important as in colder countries.
Just follow the priorities:
1. have solar hot water (the real one, not heat pumps)
2. improve the heating system by going away from electrical heaters - they should go the way of the light bulbs!
3. keep the house warm in winter and cool in summer by proper insulation and thermal mass.
4. measure what your fridge and freezer are guzzling, - and think about consequences
5. all the rest
6. maybe PV, but have a look at ATA's comments ( after the planned introduction of the feed-in tariff in NSW PV might be an interesting investment. but that's a different story.Oh and I nearly forgot: have a smaller car. The bigger your car the higher moves this point up in above list. However cars are not an issue of the home sustainablity assessment.
and my very personal comments:
- don't start buying GreenEnergy in 2009. You are wasting your money without making any difference. again see ATA's comments
- be aware what happens by selling RECs. - again see ATA's commentsSorry, I must stop here. I did not want to hijack this trail.
Posted Monday 21 Sep 2009 @ 12:25:56 pm from IP # -
Eco
MemberTo sun2steams list I would add draught sealing - big gains can be made there for small outlay - and summer window shading, and improved curtains and blinds for increased window insulation. Low flow shower heads.
Increased insulation - absolutely (esp for cold and temperate climes). Radiant barriers for summer - yes but can be difficult to fit post construction. Post construction inclusion of thermal mass is usually difficult and expensive - money may be better spent on options that give bigger gains for the dollar. PV only when every thing else has been done.
Posted Monday 21 Sep 2009 @ 11:22:15 pm from IP # -
burtons40
MemberThanks, that's just what I needed to hear. Yet another government thing brought out in a rush. I'll look at doing it in the new year, when hopefully they've ironed out the bugs. In the meantime I'm trying to apply for the only correspondence Uni course I could find on sustainability and they are making me jump through hoops!
Posted Monday 28 Sep 2009 @ 5:00:31 am from IP # -
I just had a assessment done here today and the focus was not on lighting to any great extent. He was more interested in hws, fridges, dishwashers, washing mashine, dryer and swimming pools. All big energy and or water users. Also focus on glass area, blinds, curtains and door/window openings, insulation if any.
Then he talked about who used energy and water, no of people and age in house. Size of rooms and use. Advised on possible improvements such as ceiling fans for cooling.
I haven't seen the results, to be emailed, but it was a fairly comprehensive visit. Finished up advising on possible interest free loans availability for upgrades.
While I agree with your comments sun2steam and others there is no one size fits all solution. I chose my heatpump on factors such as installation problems and while I lament the 1.25Mwh annual consumption, it was a much better option at the time for local reasons. It is far superior to a std electric hws and people in flats, units etc may have limited options. I concede that anyone north of NSW would very likely be better to use a solar hws.
If you are in Hobart where they have just had 5 days sunshine in 65 I'd say the electric or gas booster would be running all day with a solar hws. In hindsight I'm not overly convinced that any storage type system is the best way to go. Maybe instantaneous gas would be a better option in southern latitudes.
Posted Monday 28 Sep 2009 @ 8:56:35 am from IP # -
alfresco24
MemberThe HSA program is well meaning but poorly executed in the rush to get it out into the market. There is curreently a limit of around 300,000 HSA audits under the scheme and my own discussions with those who introduced it lead me to conclude this project is a data gathering exercise in disguise.
We (globally) have very poor understanding of how energy is used in households, and it's almost impossible for governments and industry to know what to do without much better understanding of the status quo. I think that's the real substance behing the project.
I am HSA Trainer, and yet to go through the extra exercise of becoming a HSA Auditor mainly because the value I can deliver to households is severely limited by the proscribed processes of the HSA Audit. As some have said already the burden of the audit details leaves very little time to actually consult with the home owner, and the report that is generated by the DEWHA engine is little more than another 'top-ten-tips.
The thing that really bugs me is how the scheme is being used by commercial operators to tout for business, selling their solutions.
Without wishing to be politic about this the Fed's are hopeless at program delivery and poor ABSA has been caught up in it.
Having said that I'd rather have the HSA scheme available to people than not.Bear in mind that HSA skills are DEFINATELY being added to future Construction Industry training and qualifications, so the HSA audit as we know it today will become redundant by 2011.
As for equipment 'needed' to do the audit. A contact and non-contact thermometer, bucket, tape measure (or good spatial skills), and compass is the basic need in the field, $200 max, plus a computer to do the spreadsheets and upload the audit. A PowerMate is a highly desirable add-on.
Posted Friday 2 Oct 2009 @ 3:50:18 am from IP # -
Eco
MemberThe 300,000 limit is a concern when you consider the number of old houses (and unfortunately new houses too) that need to be upgraded. I hope that this is the first stage of a larger program. It was hinted at that this Home Sustainability Assessment (HSA) might become the basis of mandatory disclosure of energy efficiency of a house prior to the house being sold - so that would be an ongoing requirement.
I would think there would be a much cheaper way of determining the energy usage in the household than the HSA program. Hire a consultant which Governments love to do.
I doubt whether these HSA skills being added to housing industry training will immediately make the requirement for home sustainability assessments redundant - as I said there are a lot of old houses that need fixing. Where I hope that it will impact is on the sustainability of new housing construction, which in many cases is appalling.
Posted Friday 2 Oct 2009 @ 5:16:57 am from IP # -
alfresco24
MemberThanks ECO
Housing stock in Australia is replaced at around 2-3% per year, including new homes, and subject to cyclic conditions of the economy.
The ABS predicts, and existing trends support this, that the ratio of multiple of attached dwelling and units will be double that of standalone homes within 10-15 years.
So the need to focus on old homes will diminish rapidly.
I think we also realise the costs to implement the kind of standards we can build into a new home versus upgrading an old home to an equivalent level are close to an order of magnitude more - rendering it uneconomic if not absolutely wasteful.You're correct when talking about mandatory disclosure. The ACT already require it to one degree or another, and it will become law around the country within a few years I hope.
Please note that HSA does NOT rate a home. You need Accurate/BERSpro/FirstRate5 to do that.But as far as the HSA program goes, unless someone changes their mind and funding is provided on an open-ended basis then it will definately end. If you dont want it to end - start lobbying your MP's.
The curriculums for embedding HSA-like services and advice are being written right now by the CPSISC (http://www.cpsisc.com.au/) and the first of the drafts will be published by mid 2010.There have been numerous studies into energy and sustainability practices within homes and the most recent one published by DEHWA is quite good, however less than 50 homes homes were used to compile the information. Extensive use of modelling based on minimums, means, and maximums was used to derive the final numbers.
So while the report might be 'statistically' acceptable for use by other analysts and modellers it doesnt come close to representing what really exists out there in the huge variety of behaviours.
And behaviours, not bits of proxy technologies or top-tips, is what really matters.
The greenest Watt is the Watt you dont use.
Paul.Posted Friday 2 Oct 2009 @ 6:26:42 am from IP # -
Eco
MemberThere are many many houses over 50 years old (and 100) still standing and going strong. Are you proposing that our whole inner suburbs is going to be razed in the near future and replaced with new homes? Can't see it my self and the energy involved in such a project would be so huge as to make it undesireable.
I doubt whether the HSA program will provide a statistically sound average house energy consumption. For one household incomes are limited (admittedly to a quite high level). Secondly they are self selected which is again not statistical sound.
Posted Friday 2 Oct 2009 @ 6:39:05 am from IP # -
dymonite69
MemberAlfresco24 said:
"And behaviours, not bits of proxy technologies or top-tips, is what really matters.
The greenest Watt is the Watt you dont use."This is a very important point. 50% of the variance in consumption is attributable to occupancy behaviour rather than house construction. But there is an evidence that a person that buys buys a green home also acts in a green way.
Posted Friday 2 Oct 2009 @ 6:47:25 am from IP # -
Eco
MemberDymonite69 said:
"This is a very important point. 50% of the variance in consumption is attributable to occupancy behaviour rather than house construction."An this is one way a HSA assessor can have a large impact, to educate on beneficial behaviour change. So housing and equipment upgrade is just one of the aims of the assessment process.
Posted Friday 2 Oct 2009 @ 7:15:13 am from IP # -
alfresco24
MemberHi ECO
I think you misunderstood my poor attempt at english.
My own house is 110 years old.
Electricty distribution didnt exist when it was built.
Most of the walls are 1 foot thick solid stone, 13 foot ceilings, small windows, enclosed rooms and corridors, timber floors and ventillation everywhere to get rid of oil lamp smog and fireplace smoke.
Apart from insulation, solar h/w, several skylights and a few minor draught prevention techniques there is nothing more I can do about the main part of the house that wouldnt require massive renovation costs, probably between $80k to $100k just to bring it up to 4 star, and that much again to get to 5 star.
It ain't going to happen. So, no, we shouldnt arbitrarily mandate knocking things over just to start again, especially a grand old house like mine. But the next owner can choose to do that if they want.
However there are complete suburbs of cheap houses built in the 20's and post WW2 through to the 70's that are now thankfully being 'regenerated' with new stock, and those are being rebuilt with the regulated minimum 5 star replacements.
What we need is for that 5 star requirement raised to mandatory 7 star, and again the ACT is leading the way on that score.That's why training and HSA awareness within the CPSISC (building industry) is so important.
Through my work I speak to builders a lot and it is rare to find one that gives a damn about new building techniques and materials. They'll only do it if they're forced to and the customer is willing to pay for it. Sad but true.
We need mandatory 7 star standards, mandatory ratings and disclosure at time of sale, and a breed of designers, builders, construction people and suppliers who are totally familiar and comfortable with that.Posted Friday 2 Oct 2009 @ 8:47:21 am from IP # -
dymonite69
MemberAlfresco24 said
"Apart from insulation, solar h/w, several skylights and a few minor draught prevention techniques there is nothing more I can do about the main part of the house that wouldnt require massive renovation costs"
But not an insignificant improvement. If the average energy rating of all existing houses were raised by just one star this would represent an overall decrease in energy consumption of more than 25%. This would have more impact than if every household in Australia installed a 1 kW solar system.
With good passive design and an additional 5-10% on the cost of building, it should be easy to get all new houses to 7.5 star. The limiting issue is solar access. Current development planning rarely addresses this.
Regarding changes in the building industry. The obstacle is not technical but cultural. Eco-efficient building techniques are well within the repertoire of a competent tradesman. It just easier to do what you have been doing the past one hundred times.
Posted Friday 2 Oct 2009 @ 9:44:28 am from IP # -
KarenS
MemberAs an (early?) user of this service, I am inclined to say, unfortunately, that one gets what one pays for.
The assessor came the last weekend in July. His report was submitted on 6 August. The covering letter from P Garrett Esq was dated 27 August (addressed to 'Dear Householder"), and received in late September. 8 weeks + or -. The letter mentions a $50 Green Reward Card, to be sent 'shortly', which hasn't arrived yet.
The assessor said he is supposed to do the assessment in 2 hours, and is paid for 6 hours, the rest covering travelling, and production of his report and recommendations.
The quantity of information which he is required to collect in that 2 hours is huge, and I have a 3 bedroom w/board single storey 1960 vintage house. There was hardly any time left to discuss what might be done, in what order, what might be the most cost-efficient actions, or anything else of any serious consequence. Getting the information collected, let alone discussed, if one had a large home, or an old place, or a McMansion etc, within the time allowed, would be a BIG stretch - we barely had time to go round all the rooms and answer all the questions in this medium size house. I think the quantity of data which the assessor is expected to collect in the time allowed is unrealistic.
There was no time for any sort of sensible discussion of particular problems at the time, or of perhaps prioritising actions. The report is a sight to behold!
Some parts of it I found unrecognizable - he seems to be describing some other house! There is a whole list of possible actions, with no attempt to prioritise them, no attempt to cost them, and no suggestions as to which actions might be urgent, or most or least cost effective. There was also NO recognition of the fact that I am a pensioner, and do not have money. Bald statements like "replace HWS with a gas boosted solar model (25 Recs)" are of NO HELP. As I already have a heat pump HWS, and while there might be 25 recs for replacing it, there are no other subsidies, rebates etc etc, available to replace a heat pump with anything! They're trying to get you to put in heat pumps, not take them out!!!! I also have no more north-facing roof, as what little I have, has PV panels on it.
There are a list of other things like - replace the fridge... dishwasher ... washing machine ... connect to natural gas for all your cooking, hot water heating and space heating. (I already have a gas stove and gas ducted heating ... ???). None of these items are more than 8 or 9 years old, all had the highest # of stars I could afford at the time, and they all work fine. Why, and with what (money) am I supposed to replace them?? Centrelink provide emergency money for pensioners to replace essential appliances if they fail, but these appliances haven't failed, and I wouldn't expect any of them to do so in the next 5 years or so! I use the dishwasher once every 10 days tops, etc etc. "Get rid of the dryer .." - I told him I have used it once this year - hardly likely to exacerbate global warming, and contribute 2 million black balloonsMy particular problem in this house concerned floor-to-ceiling corner windows in several rooms, and the difficulties of shading them in the summer, and stopping them haemorraghing heat in the winter. I mentioned this numerous times in the rooms concerned. Apart from suggesting heavy drapes and pelmets, there was no cognisance of this problem, and heavy drapes and pelmets are NOT possible on a window which is 3 metres wide, in the kitchen, beside the stove and above the sink ... how often am I expected to wash/clean heavy drapes???? And so on and so on. I would have liked some further discussion of the pros and cons of possible double or triple glazing; removing all or part of some of the windows, or whether I should just get more sunblinds and plant more trees (I already have lots of both), and cover the glass with greenhouse bubblewrap in the winter.
Nor is it made clear before the event that one has to arrange finance elsewhere in order to do any of these things which one might choose. There was no indication of what anything might cost - one has to chase all this up oneself. How long, how many phone calls, where to start ...... and I don't work - anyone who does wold have to take 4 weeks leave to decide what to do and to cost it, let alone actually do it!!
The disclaimer has to be seen to be believed - no, it is actually about par for the course - it basically says that nothing in the report means anything, it's all on your head, the information in the report is liable to change, and that's nothing to do with us, etc etc etc.
The implication of not emphasising that one must arrange one's own finance (from a list provided by them) was, for me, that the whole exercise was a waste of time and effort. As I am a pensioner, NO-ONE will give me a loan, interest-free, government backed or otherwise!!! I still have a small mortgage, but have redrawn on that to the extent that I can pay it back, in order to re-stump the house! Even though my main financial institution is among those listed, and they are very nice and cooperative and helpful (they are NOT a major bank), they are still not in a position to lend me any more money!
So basically, for me, the whole exercise has been a waste of time and money - I wasn't told anything I didn't already know; the recommendations range from the absurdly vague to the totally impractical in the circumstances; they are not ranked by cost (to carry out), savings to be achieved, effectiveness at saving greenhouse emissions, energy wastage, cost of operation or anything else ...
So if I win the lottery and thus have enough money to do some of these tings, I also have a piece of paper which will allow me to borrow some more money. But until I do win the lottery or otherwise come by a steady income or lots of money, no-one wants to know about lending me money, even if the gov't has provided it, and there's no interest payable by me!
What a shame - a bit more thought and planning could have produced something which might actually be useful to people who really need it, like pensioners and others who don't have the wherewithal to 'green' their houses any other way, and who could certainly do with, if not a decrease, then not much of an increase in ongoing expenditure on comfortable living. Oh well, I'll just have to continue with the sun blind, and the pedestal fan and wet towel in the summer, and hope I don't succumb to heat exhaustion ...
Posted Thursday 8 Oct 2009 @ 4:42:55 am from IP # -
alfresco24
MemberKaren I didn't know whether to laugh or cry reading your post above.
As you suggest, the Dept of Climate Change may have had good intentions, but the delivery and execution of the service is poor.
I know of a one-man-band trainer here in Adelaide who is churning out assessors that know little more than how to fill out the form. Their ability to engage in meaningful discussion is non existent, and their recommendations would have to be taken with a fist full of salt - but who's the wiser?
As I said in an earlier post I believe the subtext of the HSA assessments is more of a data gathering exercise than a real Help Plan.
Assessors receive $150 to turn up, do the assessment, upload the forms and verify information. Out of that they have to pay taxes, maintain equipment, car and insurances, and only then take out compensation for the time - that's hardly a recipe for delivering consultation and advice.
As a HSA Trainer I am yet to begin providing training courses because I don't believe the substance of the course is anywhere near good enough, and I'm spending loads of time rewriting and augmenting it to a satisfactory level. Likewise I am not inclined to take the extra steps and costs to get accreditation as an Assessor because my morals and ethics get in the way of jumping on the 'greenwash' bandwagon, unlike others.
I'd love to see the report they sent you.As for your windows issue. Yes drapes are a logical step forward and they could probably be hung from the ceiling if as you say the windows go from floor to ceiling. Otherwise low-e window tinting or a double-glazing-like film barrier can reduce radiated and convected heat load, along with a deep awning (retractable) combined with plantings and/or tall deciduous trees in front of the windows would reduce heat load as well. That would allow you to maximise winter sun and minimise summer sun.
Be aware though that low-e films and double glazing will reduce the winter sun benefit.
All the best.Posted Thursday 8 Oct 2009 @ 6:41:41 am from IP # -
dymonite69
MemberKaren,
Sorry to hear about your experience. Costs sound like a major constraint. A great book is Derek Wrigley's book for advice on retrofitting.
It does sound like your windows are the weakest link (and probably not your appliances)
My advice in order of cost-effectiveness for a typical retrofit
a) Weatherseal all door frames, window frames and vents (very cheap, very effective)
b) Insulate ceiling with batts.
c) There are DIY thermal curtain solutions or you could use generic honeycomb/cellular blinds from an internet seller.
d) Use see through bubble wrap on the inside of your windows or Warm Windows disposable film
e) Install White coolaroo shades over your windows that can be lowered in summer
f) Plant deciduous trees/vines in front of west/east windows
g) Paint your roof white OR put foil under the roof (foil is cheap but the labour is expensive and fiddly unless done DIY).try
http://www.raven.com.au/domino/raven/ravenweb.nsf/html-v/RavenDoorandWindowSeals
http://mtbest.net/bubble_glazing.html
http://www.humboldt.edu/~ccat/virtualtour/handouts/thermal_curtains.pdf
http://www.beautifulblinds.com.au/xxhc.php
http://members.pcug.org.au/~normc/lets/newsletters/qnl0306.pdf (Derek Wrigley's house)More expensive:
a) Insulate walls
b) Add awning and blinds
c) Double glazing is worthwhile if you are building from new or replacing failing windows. The added cost to single glazing is around 20%. Other things tend to influence cost of DG. Timber frames are more expensive than aluminium but are more insulating. The window hardware and frame profiles can be quite variable. Triple glazing is hideously expensive and not justified for OZ. Remember that heavy curtains of honeycomb blinds give more insulation than either.
d) Walling up the windows is a consideration and will make a big difference but I can't comment on cost. You also need to be selective about where and how much. It is best done on the south face then west then east. North facing windows are usually a benefit, not a liability
e) I would keep the heat pump HWS. These are very efficient, almost similar to gas and very competitive to solar. But as a general rule gas heating is generally cheaper than electrical.
f) Forget about solar HWS or PV panels.
Posted Thursday 8 Oct 2009 @ 6:42:59 am from IP # -
Karen
You did not waste your time. You have found out a number of problems with the assessment process and how little value it is for someone on a low fixed income, the very people they should be trying to help.
The valuable feedback to this forum is appreciated, there is just one thing left to do. Tell the Dept of Environment, Climate Change whatever. If indeed it was a waste of time and money they need to know. If people like you go just that little bit further and tell them how useless it was maybe then we can get it fixed.
Your report on the assessment was very good. I encourage you to put it to good use.
Posted Thursday 8 Oct 2009 @ 7:19:27 am from IP # -
Greenozi
MemberKaren
write to me if you want my misting/fogging device free of charge. Nothing special but could be life saver in very hot days to come. Just plug in to garden water tap and enjoy fresh, cold breeze. Regards
email: peter@greenozi.comPosted Thursday 8 Oct 2009 @ 8:16:45 am from IP # -
Eco
MemberHello Karen
Sorry to hear about your experience.
HSA assessors are paid about $200 per assessment (a bit more if you are right out in the middle of nowhere). So this is not a huge amount when you consider the 2 hr inspection, the oncost of providing the service (insurances, travel, equipment) and the addition time off site in preparing for the assessment and then submitting the information after the assessment.
The report is prepared by the department based on the information provided by the assessor. Frankly I don't know how a site specific report can possibly be provided under this report delivery approach. It would be much better for the report to be fully prepared by the HSA assessor, perhaps using sofware tools provided by the Department, and then submitted to the client and a copy provided to the Department. That way a very specific report could be provided.
Physical changes to the housing fabric are usually going to cost money. The cheapest are draught sealing (as previously suggested - most sealing equipment is available in bunnings or the other larger hardware stores and is a home handy person job). Also consider sealing internal doors leading to other parts of the house if you don't heat the whole house). CFL Lights and low flow shower heads if not already done. Things that don't cost anything is adjusting the thermostat, turning off lights, turning off equipment at the wall, keeping doors closed so heat doesn't escape. (Though I note from another post - Weather board House - that you seem to know all this stuff already!)
The lack of funds for those that don't have sufficient income to support a "Green loan" is an issue that should have been addressed in the design of the scheme. There should have been some facility for providing grants, instead of a loan, for those who qualify (perhaps to $1600 if you are not eligible for the insulation / Solar HW grant.) That would have been fair.
Posted Thursday 8 Oct 2009 @ 8:56:55 am from IP # -
KarenS
MemberThanks, guys, I appreciate the concern!
Actually, I've got a pretty good handle on what needs to be done, and whether or not it needs to happen next week or next century. I've been living in this hovel for 24 years, but it wasn't till the husband died 10 years ago that there was any money (my insurance on him, and a little bit of super) to do anything of any consequence with! And then the first concern was to keep the wretched place standing up and vaguely weatherproof, LOL.
I had Stuart McQuire do a green survey thingie a couple of years ago, which cost about $250, and was really great! I thoroughly recommend him to anyone in Melbourne, and if his house in West Brunswick is open again (he sometimes does open days for 'Sustainability Week' and that sort of stuff), it's well worth a visit. His report focusses on only one or 2 areas, as requested by the client, and is in depth and detailed - "Get 1 of these for between $x and $y, installation around $z, and it will do whatever, and cost $p to run at 2008 prices, and save you $n over 5 or 10 years". Or get some other thing, which will cost less to buy, more to install, save more in the long run, but fill up the back yard. Your choice. And so on. USEFUL stuff!!!!!
I was born & bred in a w/b house 60+ years ago, and have lived in a few others since, and have got quite good at them over that time - you have to keep at them, and over the years, I've gradually got this joint from a glorified humpy to somewhere where one can be reasonably comfortable most, but not all, of the time. However I have seen the solution I want for this wretched kitchen window, and it ain't cheap! I had vague hopes that the scheme might go some way towards getting a decent solution to the particular problem, instead of the overall survey of the whole house, which in my case wasn't really necessary!
Alfresco24, is there some way to send private messages on this forum? If so, we should investigate it, as I'd be happy to send you a copy of the report, but I don't think it appropriate to put it up in public! You can then see what the rest of the world is doing. I saw, early in the scheme, a mention over here that Stuart McQuire, mentioned above, was going to be one of the assessors for Melbourne - knowing how he works, and given what you've said, I doubt he'll be sticking with it very long - he's a much more committed and thorough operator than appears to be what is allowed for by this scheme, unfortunately.
The chap who did my assessment was reasonably knowledgeable, and lives in a Victorian terrace, as does my brother, and we were swapping stories about the problems of 'greening' houses like those, which are a whole different ball game, specially when there are Heritage overlays and other such considerations involved. Although I reckon my vintage house only has about another 10 years to go before someone starts to realise that there aren't all that many of them left, because lots are getting knocked down for units or McMansions over here, and here I am with a nearly original one, which I'd like to keep reasonably intact - I have all my original KM steel frame casement windows, except this b*** kitchen window, and the bathroom one, and we have all the original door furniture, cornices, and some other bits & pieces, and we haven't shifted walls, doors etc inside or messed it up too much.
Dymonite69, you'll laugh, but a little while ago, I responded to another thread on this forum, to a bloke in the same suburb as me, asking about a weatherboard house! Said, without the websites, much the same as you said above - passive first, shade outside in summer, curtains and floor coverings, draught-proof, insulate roof, etc etc. I have already done much of this stuff! And then see, after all that, how much serious stuff is necessary.
As far as I'm concerned, it is this one particular window that I was looking for a solution for. The appliances are perhaps not optimal, but they're pretty good, and they're not all that old. And Centrelink has a scheme whereby pensioners can get a grant or a loan for replacement of essential appliances if they die suddenly. So if your fridge or HWS dies in the night, and you are a pensioner, you can get immediate financial assistance from Centrelink to help. Sometimes a grant, sometimes a loan, and they don't advertise this widely, but there is help available for such emergencies.
We have half an attic under construction (one of my sons is a cabinet maker, but went back to Uni this year, so we're extra broke, LOL); we had the pull-down stair put in. Since then we have rejigged the insulation (R3.5 batts), had the downlights removed, extended and moved the cooling ducting, removed the original HWS (including the asbestos insulation - at 60+, I got a space suit and did that, and had it taken away - if the mesothelioma takes 20 years to get you, I'll be 80+, and probably dying of something else anyway, LOL), took out some old non-structural timbers, and put a chipboard floor in the space. There's a bit more floor to go in, and then we'll get the attic guys to come back and sark under the tiles, put the walls in, and the access doors to the rest of the roof space, and whatever else needs doing. The roof isn't tall enough to make a room, it is only storage space, but it is also super insulation!! We have to properly insulate the trapdoor space, but there is a recipe at an US website called "Build it Solar", which also has an illustrated guide to doing bubblewrap window insulation.
'http:\\www.builditsolar.com'
I put PV solar on the roof earlier this year, and you don't want to know about THAT saga - it's not such a fabulous idea in Australia just now, unless you are off-grid and have no option, and in Victoria just at the moment, it is an unmitigated disaster - there was an article on p.3 of today's Age illustrating ONE of the major problems, and there are several others!!! 'http://tinyurl.com/yc8pygh' We started the whole thing in late 2007, and if it had happened a bit quicker, it might have been less of a hassle.
The heatpump HWS isn't going anywhere any time soon, unfortunately - there are other difficulties besides the lack or rebates etc, so I spend my time turning it off for 3 days at a time (it was put in when there were 4 or 5 of us in the house - now there's one or 2), and swearing at it. One of the things I needed to do was to get the house restumped (one corner was nearly 2 inches down, and the rest wasn't too flash), as there wasn't much point thinking about tanks etc when the low points on the guttering weren't anywhere near the downpipes, and it was up and down like a bride's nightie.
The carpet is old, and some of it is revolting, but it ain't coming up; the curtaining is gradually being replaced; we've used miles of weather-stripping and lots of draught thingies on the doors, plus a number of 'sausages' for recalcitrant draughts in strange places. The wretched privet I got sick of clogging up the guttering and chopped off last Easter didn't die, thank goodness - I didn't realise privet would coppice quite so readily as it did, but after lopping it, I realised why I had left it grow in the first place - it shelters one of the corner windows from the north-east!! Now it can stay for a bit, but I will be giving it haircuts at roof level, not letting it get 15m high!!!!!
I've also got vinyl weatherboards on the west & north - initially put on the west so it didn't have to be painted every time you looked at it, but a major, and unexpected bonus is the insulation qualities it has! Great!!! The dreaded West Wall is long and exposed, and absolutely unshelterable. It is on the drive, which is 2.4m, yes, 2.4m wide, then the fence, then next door's drive, which is 2.7m wide. The block slopes away on that side, and you can stand up under one end of the house there. I have a large deciduous tree on the north west corner, which gets in the sewer about once every 5 years, which is a small price to pay for the summer shade. However, I cannot shade anything further back than where that tree reaches. Hence the problem of the large window, which is in the middle of this miserable wall. We are now on the 3rd sun blind - the one there when we moved in blew off in a change and we found it in the front yard of the house across the street. Melbourne changes come from the south-west, and the real hum-dingers do the 20 degree drop in 20 minutes bit, and you can just about see the black line on the weather map going across the sky, LOL. The wind can be fierce for a short time, and you need to get it into the house to cool it off, so the window has to open! The second blind was aluminium, and got blown around and bent so much that eventually it would go neither up nor down, but was stuck half way. I now have a short-arm polyester canvas one, which so far is great, except I'm getting so old and decrepit that I no longer have the upper body strength to raise it. We usually have it at half mast for glare reduction in winter, but it needs to go up when there are storms etc forecast.
So in general, we're more or less under control, and I know what else I need to do, even if I can't afford to do it all at once. If it gets too cold in the winter, I knit another jumper. My problem is the heat in the summer - I've never liked it, and the older I get, the worse I feel it. Hence the evap cooling. I really don't want to put air-con in - MUCH too hungry for electricity, I think. I'll resort to the wet towels and the pedestal fans of my childhood, and at least now that I'm ancient, I don't have to go out or to work etc, so I can lie on the couch with a spray bottle and the fan all day if I want. As long as the power doesn't go off!!!! And in Victoria just now, that's not necessarily a remote possibility!!!!! Heard Island or the bottom of New Zealand look increasingly promising as retirement options these days, LOL.
In the meantime, we struggle on, and fill up fora like these with assorted junk ...
Posted Thursday 8 Oct 2009 @ 10:04:30 am from IP # -
alfresco24
MemberAs you say Karen, you understand the house well and have it 'under control'. That's actually the main game - getting householders and their kids to know what they are doing at a behaviours level.
I'm personally dead against using bits of bleeding edge expensive technology as proxy solutions for bad behaviours and low yield results.Just today I had a quote for a Solar HWS replacement for my gas HWS.
- One plumber was keen to quote it and offered $6800 for a standard 30 tube (evacuated tube) system with storage tank, recirculating pump, controller and gas flow thru heater to boost any under temperature water.
- the other plumber took one look at my existing Rheem Stellar gas HWS and said 'replace it with the same thing, no point wasting money and creating a potential maintenance headache with an elaborate Solar HWS'
I take the latter as practical advice, especially given the $4000+ price differential.
Considering that Renewable Energy Credits are only worth $23 a point right now, the potential rebate of $850 maximum wouldnt make much of an incentive either.
The first plumber wasnt a bad guy, it's just that I dont wear my 'do the right thing by the planet' heart on my sleeve that dearly.
And before anyone jumps on me, when you consider all the extra embedded and embodied energy in making, installing, and maintaining a complex solar HWS like the greenest one I was contemplating - I dont think it adds up. I'd be better off spending that extra money on skylights and plugging up the old wall vents and stuff.As for the HSA report you can send it to me at alfresco24@hotmail.com and I'll acknowledge it directly.
Posted Thursday 8 Oct 2009 @ 10:41:26 am from IP # -
dymonite69
MemberI'm with you Alfresco. 30 tube Evacuated tube gives me 3800 kWh a year vs my Solahart J which gives me 3500 kWh. That is only an extra saving of $60 a year for a much more expensive unit.
Karen it sounds like overheating is the main problem and the problem is getting radiant protection of the west wall and window.
Here are some ideas:
1) Get some solar control film:
http://www.mepfilms.co.nz/brochures/mep_spec_guide.pdf
Fairly cheap and the RK20 Silver rejects 2/3rd of solar energy.
2) Paint the west wall white OR
3) Get a foil lined blind on the inside of the house protected from the elements. Shiny foil facing out. OR
4) A novel idea that I have seen. Line some Hardiflex or Metal cladding with foil (shiny side facing out). Attach this to the west wall with battens to keep an air gap of 25mm. Have the cladding facing out and the shiny foil facing inward towards the original wall
5) Erect some kind of swinging gate down the drive that can be partially opened and locked into place to funnel the cool breezes into the west window. Don't forget to have a leave a down wind door or window opening to let the breeze out. If this is not possible install roof ventilators ducted through the ceiling to allow hot air out. Put backdraft dampers do warm air doesn't escape in winter.
6) Install some ceiling fans
Posted Thursday 8 Oct 2009 @ 10:58:39 am from IP # -
Getting back to the original posters question,
I've signed up already to become a Home Assessor and am doing my training the week after next, and hope to be accredited a few weeks later. There do seem to be a lot of hoops to jump through dealing with any Government Department but I feel I have something to contribute, as I have a great deal of knowledge about being more energy efficient.
As an example in the past 12months I've cut my juice usage from 19.7Kw ($450/quarter) at its highest to just over 11Kw per day ($210/quarter) and I still manage to run my Adelaide based IT business with no less "hassle" for lack of a better word. I live in a rented town house which seems to be made of swiss cheese and am very limited to what I can do.
I see the Home Assessments as a way to tell others about what I've learnt over the last couple of years. Not all much of that from the ATA other than a few interesting articles in ReNew, more about what I've done. I have a friend who has a building design background who is about to be accredited as a Home Assessor so am hoping some of that will rub off on me in time.
I have all the other parts to get the accreditation in play such as the national police check and the insurance and hope to have that finalised shortly after I've completed the 4 days of "training". It did seem a little odd that the training provider only required some basic computer knowledge no building design background or anything they listed as requirements!
Burtons40
The total cost of the training and all the hoop jumping is fast approaching $3k including all the other costs - but it should be paid back quickly as the fee schedule says its all Ex Gst (read the fine print) and is $150-$200 per assessment not including travel allowance if greater than 50km!I plan to use an SSD based Atom tablet "Asus T91" once the assessments go online or maybe its some zany software package, even the training mob has no idea... Alfresco24 can you shed some light here?
Posted Thursday 8 Oct 2009 @ 1:27:15 pm from IP # -
dymonite69
MemberIt is sad that the assessment is a rote data gathering exercise to later feed into a computer. It all sounds like GIGO - garbage in, garbage out.
It would be far more sensible for the assessor to target the main weaknesses rather than aimlessly work through a list.
A screening questionnaire ought to be conducted first.
There might be flags or triggers that indicate a major problem or occupant practices that require further exploration e.g. double sash windows that leak like crazy, unsealed fireplace vents, dodgy patch old insulation in the ceiling, old electric storage HWS, using dryer several times a week, electric bar radiator left on all day, 2nd fridge
There should be a range of options presented in increasing cost e.g. bubble wrap > curtains > honeycomb blinds > double glazing indicating degree of likely benefit.
You should be able to do most things with a torch, compass, laser measure and incense stick (and a mask and pair of overalls).
Just with some simple bits of hard data, one should get a fair idea about how much an intervention is likely to help e.g. floor plan, energy bills for each quarter, glazing areas for each orientation, amount of sun-exposed window, insulation levels in wall and ceiling, power hungry appliances.
The current process sounds far to overcomplicated to be useful to the client.
Posted Thursday 8 Oct 2009 @ 3:57:46 pm from IP # -
alfresco24
MemberKarenS
Many thanks for scanning and sending this through. (HSA report)
Like you I'm a bit ????? with the report also. I'm not sure if I'd know how to take it if I put myself in the shoes of a completely average, normal, and neutral family mum or dad, I'd probably be thinking My God I had better start from scratch - again.The advice a HSA should be delivering would be all of the that already listed plus a significant narrative about the way you could maximise the benefits in the context of what you already have and directly related to the options (or lack of) given in the report, plus a 'real' budget for achieving all of the above related to the direct $ savings derived from the HSA.
I suppose we could go on being critical about the HSA itself, but we should really take it for what it is - a starting point and learning experience for both the government and home owners. If this all leads to a much better understanding of what can be done for a given cost and reward then that's a reasonable outcome.
The list on page one is OK in so far as highlighting some priorities, but simply suggesting changing certain things without reference to their age and rate of use is not an ideal approach.
The reference to high consumption by entertainment and office equipment is completely inconclusive if all that is suggested is turning things off at the wall socket without reference to how/why they are used the way they are. And, the suggested saving of $538 by doing that is rubbish as I've never seen anything like that from a limited set of 'appliances' in 3 years of specialising in electrical energy efficiency. Frankly the figure given is an outrageous error.
Their 'Step 1' suggestion of calling tradies and suppliers to fix that and some other personally driven attributes is a joke.
Updating appliances and heating to gas is fine over time as appliances begin to die (if you have gas in the street). Buying Greenpower is a nonsense -it barely exists, and utilities will be bound to head that way anyway.
It's really about identifying the low-hanging-fruit so to speak where the incremental cost/benefit is highest, otherwise it's just a lot of money for not much return to mother earth or your own comfort.
Draught proofing and window treatments are really the most effective immediate goals to set.
Good ventilation, including thermal stacking and exhaust pathways during hot summer days (even when you're not home) remain important.In the medium term the anticipated practice of requiring mandatory disclosure of house ratings, i.e 5 star, 6 star etc when you go to sell it may have some impact on how we equip our homes, and so if you think it might go to sale in the next 2-3+ years, and wont be demolished/rebuilt, then significant envelope improvements may be warranted.
Posted Thursday 8 Oct 2009 @ 10:35:04 pm from IP #
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