nige
Member
Hello all,
I know it's on here some place just not found it yet...
Anyway the letter has arrived in the post regarding a smart meter installation.
Now can anyone fire me an update? I am just off to get a padlock & clasp for the meter box...
I am still not convinced on any of this I see it as a rort, we have cut our power consumption by 50% over the last 12 months yet our bills have miraculously gone up to compensate for this saving in useage.
Cheers
Nige
ghostgum
Member
Nige, you must have really low electricity use if your reduction in energy usage has been been erased by the $20 increase in annual service charges in the last year, or else live in an area with quite different charges to me (south eastern suburbs of Melbourne).
I suspect most of the issues with smart meters are due to old inaccurate spinning disc meters being replaced by new accurate meters, or problems with the retailer billing systems.
ghostgum
Member
Some figures for Origin Energy retailer in UED area:
2009: Service $175pa, usage $0.1847/kWh, annual bill at 14kWh/day is $1119
2010: Service $201pa, usage $0.211838/kWh, annual bill at 14kWh/day is $1285 (+15%)
2011: Service $219pa, usage $0.23496/kWh, annual bill at 14kWh/day is $1419 (+10%)
It would be difficult to halve from 14kWh/day to 7kWh/day. Taking a more likely starting figure of 20kWh/day:
2009: 20kWh/day = $1523. 10kWh/day = $849.
2010: 20kWh/day = $1747. 10kWh/day = $974.
2011: 20kWh/day = $1934. 10kWh/day = $1076.
Yes, prices have gone up a lot, but it is 25% in two years, not 50% in one year.
There will be more increases in the service charges, which varies by retailer and distributor, but from memory is about 10% again.
hamish05
Member
Agree totally. However I was predicting EHW and/or heating may be an issue here with Nige.
I heard the CEO of one of the Power Billers saying last week, prices would rise 9% Jan 2012, 10%July 2012 ( carbon pricing) and another rise in Jan2013 (Say 10% again) That’s over 30 % in 1 year and 1 day !!!!
ghostgum
Member
cava said:
This may be of interest.
Thanks. I had a good laugh. I think they need a new slogan "No one should be forced to use electricity".
It reminded me of the introduction of fluoride into town water. People started complaining about the health effects it was causing in a country town. Unfortunately, a technical problem meant that the introduction of fluoride had been delayed, and hadn't actually started.
cava
Member
We personally know someone who had a PV system installed on the Mornington Peninsula VIC, and literally from the day the smart meter was installed, started having health issues. The meter was installed adjacent to the bedroom and she now wished that she had never gone down this path. She has had to live and sleep in their campervan in the driveway and spends as much time away from her home as possible.
The interesting thing is, that when she is away for a few days, she gets better, but when she returns, within a day she is ill again. Currently they are in the process of getting the power disconnected from their home to see if that has any beneficial effect and are seriously talking about moving.
ghostgum
Member
It would be interesting to know the field strength in the bedroom, and also in the campervan. A cheaper option to moving would be to line the inside of that bedroom wall with a sheet of conductive metal, like one side of a faraday cage. That would mostly keep the RF signals from the smart meter on the outside of the wall. Cheapest option would be to use aluminium foil, stuck to the wall, with each sheet overlapped and taped to give good conductivity.
If reducing the RF signals to almost nothing improves health, then it doesn't matter if RF wasn't the cause.
nige
Member
For those that asked yes I really have been chopping down on the power consumption.
As background yes I have added insulation to what was there in the roof, the walls have now been done and under the floor is my project in between work for January.
The SHW system replaced the old electric HWS with the loss of off peak power to boot.
I have had the electrician in to make sure other older systems are totally disconnected as they are not used (old electrical heaters) So it's not like the effort is all hot air.
So thank you for those polite enough to give a measured polite responce. [Edited by moderator].
A solar syetem is in the pipeworks but I am thinking a 3kw system but I really wanted to just get my head around TOU tariffs or others before having a smart meter installed so I could at least make an informed decision as to tariff / plan etc. after the 25,000 ltrs of water bladders were installed under the house.
[Edited by moderator].
Manners cost nothing but speak volumes of the person.
hamish05
Member
Nige..Settle, a post like that last one will never get you any assistance here or anywhere else for that matter. No offence was meant (I feel sure) by any of the replies made to your question.
Frankly, you made a statement that needs the support of hard numbers, because on the surface, what you are saying is difficult to understand. Is it a coincidence that you have chosen a confrontational reply this time instead of answering the question?
btw, an electrically boosted SHW system could easily add greatly to your costs. As you say it is now connected to peak rate electricity. I have found my SHW system needs to be managed carefully to achieve the most economical operating cost.
ghostgum
Member
Regarding SHW causing an increase in electricity usage:
1. I know of one solar hot water system using evacuated tubes and electric boost, that is operated with the circuit breaker for the boost turned off for much of the year. This may not keep the water at an ideal temperature to kill certain bacteria, but it does greatly reduce electricity usage.
2. Some people have a timeswitch installed so the boost only occurs off-peak. This has been an issue with people installing PV solar, and finding that the off-peak meter is removed, and they need to pay extra for a timeswitch to keep their hot water off-peak.
3. With SHW and electric boost, having a shower in the evening will cool the tank water, then overnight boost will warm it up again, then the following day the solar doesn't have much to do. It uses less electrical energy if you have showers in the morning on this type of system. [With instant gas boost, having a shower in the evening uses less gas energy]
nige
Member
In the last 15 months I have cut the power consumption of the house purchased 24 months ago from 22.9kwh per day down to 9.44 at it's lowest but average is about 10.58 for the last nine months.
With the loss of the old electric HWS I have lost off peak power as well.... mutter mutter
So each qtr bill in kwh has been Daily average (inc off peak and peak) respectively 22.9, 18.7, 14.04, 10.92, 11.54 10.78 The last bill @ 10.78 was for the period of Aug to Nov
I have ordered up replacement bills so I can see the cost per kwh and service charge.
Then it's time to play the power co's (providers / resellers) off against each other.
A call has been made to Powercor regarding meter installation so that has been deferred until after the parliamentary inquiry but even if I do install a 3kw system which tariff over say a 15 year projection will give a better bang for the buck?
ghostgum
Member
Towards the end of the last Victorian government, they introduced a moratorium on the forced introduction of time-of-use tariffs. I don't think they wanted TOU being discussed in the lead up to the election, and there were concerns about how TOU would affect low income households with people home during the day (e.g. elderly). The rollout of the smart meters continued, with customers being on the same tariff as before.
If you do have a smart meter or an interval meter (e.g. EM1200 meter installed for people with PV solar), then you should be able to request historical data from your retailer. Since you don't have the smart meter yet, this won't help you for a while. I requested 15 months of data from my retailer and received this as a spread sheet with my power usage by the half hour, with columns for peak, off-peak and PV feed-in. From this I worked out that I am slightly better off (5-10%) being on flat rate, because most of my power usage is during the evening. However having PV solar means that I have been put on TOU.
That's an impressive reduction in power usage. 11kWh per day is good if you are including SHW with electric boost.
Which tariff is better will depend on your usage. If you get PV solar in Victoria, then it is almost certain that you will be put on TOU. Some retailers have 3 rates, others 2. Some have higher fixed monthly charges with lower tariffs, but if you have low power usage this may not be beneficial. I'd say let them install the smart meter, then once you have some data do the analysis and see which retailer is cheaper.
With a TOU and a time switch, you can make the SHW boost be off-peak, but then the cost of your evening power usage goes up...
hamish05
Member
I have had SHW (elect boost) for 2 yrs, and Solar PV for 10 months. Therefor my tariff has been on TOU for only 10 months. In that I monitor and record my usage twice daily (very little else to do) I have a good feel for where I am with my power consumption and what factors are affecting it at any point in time.
My yearly consumption has reduced from 30.3kWh/day in 2009 to 22.2kWh/day in 2010 courtesy mainly of my SHW installation. Yearly cost was $1858 (2009) and $1691 (2010)
This year I am at present averaging 13.0kWh with a summer quarter to go. This reduction has been achieved as a result of TOU metering which has encouraged me to invest in more efficient household equipment and practices. This year so far I have accumulated a $478 CREDIT. A large portion of this year’s improvement has come from a better understanding of how to get the best efficiency and economy from my SHW.
Of our present daily average 9.7kWh has come from the grid and solar has contributed 3.3kWh. I endeavour to where possible, maximise our solar export, for the obvious financial benefit.
In terms of cost, I have found that TOU has indeed enabled me to have a better average cost per kWh than I initially anticipated. Presently it is averaging at 16.5 cents per kWh. This has been achieved with only minor changes to our previous household practices. E.g. Clothes and dish washing done during the night (during the week) and of course as GG suggested, a time clock to ensure that SHW boosting is only done on OP tariff. Interestingly, living with differing tariff cost hasn’t been an issue for us, other than the expense of the new equipment we purchased.
I have a contract with my retailer (Red Energy) for 2 years from the date of my PV installation, and as a result haven’t attempted to compare their charges with another retailer. However I am sure that I could do better.
It is however instructive to read here and on other forums the billing problems people are experiencing with their retailers. I have not had any issues with my mine and certainly hope not to in future. Although, the possible future instillation of a smart meter, has the capacity to muddy the waters somewhat.
nige
Member
Interesting...
Ok plan is for a 3kw PV system probably installed around March / April, which by then leaves me time to finish the underfloor insulation and get a good chunk of the secondary window double glazing done.
The SHW is gas boosted BTW. As an added determinging we both have home offices so a good portion of our work is taken up at home so there is nearly always some-one at home during the day.
AGL has offerd me a two year contract with electricity selling at 17.5c kwh and gas at 10c per MJ
May as well go for that while waiting for the PV install. The TOU tariff will be an item of interest when it finally has to happen.
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