Someone told me today that there are only 70000 homes left???
You can view info on the absa website but I am still waiting for my ho number-its been sent away for external data entry absa told me a few days ago.
So this program may end before I even get a chance to do assessments?
:(((
Is the green loans program going to run out?
(161 posts) (53 voices)-
anna76
MemberPosted Monday 25 Jan 2010 @ 9:13:15 am from IP # -
PeterReefman
MemberYep unfortunately I think it is, and I'm in the same boat. I did training late last year and while I've already paid for the course, insurance, etc. will be lucky to get a chance to do any at all.
But chin up. Everyone that went through is now trained and qualified to do assessments, and there's a LOT of people who missed out on getting there houses done, as well as 'on sale' compulsory inspections like in QLD. So plenty of scope for work. And let's face it, the government scheme - while a great concept - was very poorly executed. I feel most of us will be able to do much better reports as individuals, and if the massive doorknocking operators end up leaving the industry because there's no more fully subsidised work available, then it may well be a good thing anyway.
Posted Monday 25 Jan 2010 @ 1:16:04 pm from IP # -
PeterReefman
MemberSorry you're right, I should have used future tense a little more. There's not a lot of people who HAVE missed out, but there's a lot that WILL miss out.
But it WILL end whether we like it or not, and of the millions of houses around Australia only 360,000 will be covered by the scheme. And as an assessor-in-waiting who is pretty much guaranteed to not get enough govt jobs to pay pack my expenses, I'm happy to look past it and look at ways to not only square those expenses up, but to also use this new qualification to help people green-up their homes while generating some kind of supplementary income.
My thoughts are to improve the quality of assessments and run smaller localised projects in conjunction with community groups.
Posted Tuesday 26 Jan 2010 @ 12:38:37 am from IP # -
anna76
Memberbut I dont understand-that is just crazy- I am working under a company and havent even started with them yet. So if the houses are all done I have to pay back my course fees etc out of my wage but if I am not working how can I afford to pay it back?
This is so so so unfair. I left my permanent job for this aswell and the governement should be responible for all those now out of work because of this failure :(( very angryPosted Tuesday 26 Jan 2010 @ 3:31:56 am from IP # -
Eco
MemberI feel sorry for you and all would be assessors caught up in the scheme. The last advice I have had is that ABSA is not accrediting more HSA assessor as of 21st of this month (except for assessors to service postcode that are not currently served).
http://www.environment.gov.au/greenloans/assessors/index.html
http://www.hsas.net.au/site/index.cfm166,000 assessment done out of 360,000 in under 6 months when the scheme was meant to last 2.5 to 3 years. 5000 assessors. Will actually be completed in months.
ABSA have also said (though I can't find it in writing anywhere) they will offer refunds of their fees to the very many people like you (if you submitted your fee with the application). However that does not compensate you for training, insurance etc. not to mention problems like having quit your job in expectation of work for a year or two.
I am not in a much better position having been accredited late - I probably won't get to do enough assessments to pay back my investment.
Things might change - as they have frequently in the past. Who knows.
Posted Tuesday 26 Jan 2010 @ 8:16:52 am from IP # -
SWEETCREEK
Memberi JUST RECEVED THIS FROM MY TRAINERS !OPEN LETTER TO ABSA:
Dear Stephen and Alison, 26/01/10I refer to your letter sent to our trainees by email on January 22nd.
It has come to our attention that you are offering trainees their money back due to an excess of applications.
Some of our trainees have noted that ABSA is placing responsibility for this excess of trainees onto training companies as you describe in your email:
“Unfortunately the program had been so extensively promoted by third party organizations that ABSA received a large number of applications before, during and after Christmas, the result being that ABSA is now holding over 5,000 new applications waiting processing”...
The graduates are assuming that by ‘third party organisations’, you mean training organisations.
It was ABSA that set up the train the trainer program on behalf of DEHWA is that correct?
We request that you clarify this. We also request that you clarify what you mean to do about a clear oversupply of HSA’s relative to the DEHWA budget.
Further questions that need to be clarified are:
1. Do you see ABSA as the regulatory body as well as the accrediting organisation? In your email you explained that after consultations with DEWHA you thought that 2000 assessors would be the right figure. Is it also accurate to say that only ABSA was privy to the numbers of trainers and organisations that could provide this service? Who would be in the best position to judge numbers of trainees required and how many? Courses would be required to train that amount? Certainly not the individual training organisations!
2. If ABSA is the regulatory authority did ABSA contemplate placing a fixed cap on training assessors (i.e. 2000) rather than opting for a fixed date for training? This could have been achieved by dividing the number of training organisations by the number of assessors required and allocating training companies that amount to train.3. Is ABSA lobbying government to increase the budget for HSA’s on behalf of its members?
Clearly there have been errors of judgement and rather than apportioning blame it would be better to move forward united.
We request that you seriously consider the following recommendations:
· ABSA is the representative body of over 5000 members. This is serious leverage.
The Federal Government will not want to see 5000 members suddenly out of work. The Federal Government have already misjudged and arguably mishandled the uptake for Solar and Insulation. This new HSA debacle can seriously damage DEWHA’s credibility. Now is the time for ABSA and individual members to lobby the Federal Government to assess a further 300,000 households. This will save credibility and stimulate employment. ABSA needs to show leadership and keep us updated on how best to lobby and who to lobby.
· ABSA/DEWHA take immediate action to ration out the remaining 100,000 households so that each assessor contracted, receives equal allocation. Should the government run a further scheme, assessors are allocated an equal amount and those jobs can then be ‘traded and reallocated between assessors if necessary’.
We are a small training organisation, having trained up approximately 300 of the more than 5000. We understand that ABSA has undergone phenomenal growth and with that the inevitable ‘growing pains’ and now it is time for ABSA to take a stand. You cannot leave these things to ‘market forces’, some leadership and regulation needs to be put into place to assure a semblance of job security. Only ABSA is in a position to lead us, to negotiate hard with government and create a new possibility.
We anxiously await your response.
Yours Faithfully
Daniel - Director COOLPLANET
Colin - Senior Trainer COOLPLANET
............AND THIS IS MY RESPONSE:
Hi Daniel and Colin
Thanks for the copy of that letter.
**WHAT THE HELL**
This information has shocked me!!I have sent in my completed registration package to absa ,taken out pl and pi insurance,got the police check,passport photos, everything signed by JP, and quit my full time job, all before x-mas!
I've bought a new car (as the last one was not a good look for an assessor) and a new laptop to do my assessments properly!
I have spent at least $700 on advertising and promotion and $500 on new clothes & have been telling my prospects to hang in there until I am registered!I expect my package from absa any day now so I can start to bring home some faycon and keep my family intact!
I have sent emails to absa to ask for confirmation receipt of my registration pack but no reply ........yet?!?Please keep me informed of any comunications with relevant bodies as this letter reads like it may have serious cosequences for my future.
Shall I write to DEWHA or absa or sit tight for nOW?
Keep up the good work guys.................
Regards,
Erick G. 02 6685 9795wELL it doesn't look good does it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted Tuesday 26 Jan 2010 @ 9:52:31 am from IP # -
Buzzman
MemberAnna76 and Erick G
Alas, I too have been caught out by the maelstrom of greed surrounding the HSAS.
Greed on the part of the RTOs to pump as many trainees through as possible.
Greed by big and medium-size corporates to put on as many assessors as possible and milk the market.
As a PP on this forum said in another thread (with copy of letters from Stephen at ABSA regarding letters to DEWHA from ABSA) - ABSA identified this potential problem as long aago as September, when only 700 assessors had signed on.
No doubt based on the sudden jump in numbers around that time they predicted they'd reach their previously estimated target of around 2000 assessors by December, and asked DEWHA to allow them to limit intake and advise RTOS of this.
DEWHA refused.
So ABSA was not able to formally advise RTOs that less trainees would be needed, so the RTOs did what every good business does, and made hay while the sun shone.
I only learned of these issues in late December, after I'd paid my fee to ABSA and could log onto the ABSA forum, I then subsequently learned more from PP on this forum.
So although you have a right to be angry, it is DEWHA who should bear the brunt of our collective frustration.
My advice is write to DEWHA and complain that they've mishandled it - and 'cc' a copy of your letter to the Opposition Environment Spokesperson. Remember to put "cc to...." on the bottom of the letter to DEWHA.
Stephen Berry
Director, Green Loans Program
GPO Box 787, Canberra, ACT 2601"cc" to:
Hon Greg Hunt MP
Shadow Minister for Climate Action, Environment and Heritage
PO Box 6022
House of Representatives
Parliament House
Canberra ACT 2600Posted Tuesday 26 Jan 2010 @ 11:35:02 am from IP # -
movin
MemberAnna76 wasn't but few weeks ago you were on this forum trying to sell 50 assessments in my direct neighbouring postcode, in Victoria, and your in Sydney. If the program is going to finish early, then in my opinion, it's because companies like your employer are sucking it dry.
When I enrolled in this program there were only 2 registered RTO,s, 1 of which who was the training arm of the Australian institute of Architects in Melbourne. They had all the best intentions in the world of only training people with a background in either Architecture, building, energy, or at least some related field and experience, and would not as a matter of professional integrity, take just anybody with 2k and $ signs in their eyes. Partly why I trained with them and signed up to the program in the first place. 15 RTO's + later, and we are all in this situation of staring down the gun barrel of unemployment.
I am not implying this is you personally,(perhaps your employer?) or anyone here, as most here seem to be getting screwed, besides which, this is a forum for people who actually put there money where there mouth is, to get a subscription to mags like Renew in the first place. This is indicative of, or shows interest other than purely financial.
Many fellow assessors I know have sat back and watched as the leeches of the free market economy at its best, have smelt the sweet scent of some federal funding and opended the flood gates to try and milk it dry. Who do you point the finger at for letting the situation denegrate to its present predicament?, I have no idea.RTO's? DEHWA? ABSA?
Personally I have been studying renewable energies in my own time at night school for several years, so when this program comes to an end, Im still left with an education and background gained over years, with skillsets and knowledge that can be transferred. A 4 day training coarse, maketh an expert not me thinks.
So cleaning out the scumbags from the industry, Im all for it. They can audit absolutely any one of my assessments and I can stand by them with I believe, personal integrity and honesty, based on knowledge gained over years. I still cant get out of a house in under 2 hours, 3 hrs being the average.
Meanwhile, when the funding supply dries up, which is only a matter of when, not if, then the carpet baggers who saturate an area with telemarketing and have assessors who are in and out in under 90 mins, $60-80 an assessment,FF, 24/7, etc, will be left with a lot of empty office space, and unfortunately, several thousand dollars of some well meaning peoples money, a lot of which seem to be here. Be interesting to see how environmentally friendly they are when it comes to recycling peoples training $.
Posted Wednesday 27 Jan 2010 @ 11:45:06 am from IP # -
anna76
Membermovin u are an idiot in your response.
I did nothing wrong whatsoever. they were valid appointments that customers wanted serviced...this has no bearing on me whatsoever.
It doesnt matter about what kind of degree or how qualifited one is to do the role. The fact is people paid thousands out 2 get trained and wont have a job to go too.Posted Friday 29 Jan 2010 @ 4:17:51 am from IP # -
anna76
Membermovin u are an idiot in your response.
I did nothing wrong whatsoever. they were valid appointments that customers wanted serviced...this has no bearing on me whatsoever.
It doesnt matter about what kind of degree or how qualifited one is to do the role. The fact is people paid thousands out 2 get trained and wont have a job to go too.Posted Friday 29 Jan 2010 @ 4:17:51 am from IP # -
movin
MemberYes I know they wont have a job to go to, Im one of them.
I am an independant assessor. I have to find all my assessments personally. I do 1, occassionally 2 a day. If I spent all my time marketing and not doing assessments, then me and my family would starve.
If I get greedy and want to try and book 50 assessments, to sell to others at a profit, and as an adjunct clogging an already stressed GL phone booking lines for all,(now on hold for 50 mins) then from my perspective, that has some bearing on me and my depletion of a finite systems resources, WHATSOEVER.Posted Friday 29 Jan 2010 @ 4:51:25 am from IP # -
Enviropoint
MemberHey movin, and all the assessors,
I feel you’re all hard done by. I think most of you have been miss lead by the people who run the assessment courses. A mate’s wife recently told me at a barbecue that she had become an assessor, I almost fell over. She has absolutely no experience in the building industry at all, yet the assessment company will happily, take her money, promise the world, give her 2 days training and send her in to a person’s house. Well done Field Force.
I have often wondered what this program was about.
It is called the green loans program.
I have often thought that the interest in the loan should come first before the assessment, therefore the door knocker is not following the initial idea from the Gov. I may be wrong with that, you who are ethical in the assessment process please tell me.
Will there be green loans after the assessment numbers are up?
Did the Gov allocate a potential number of Loans to match the number of assessments?
So many uncertainties.All the best for you all. Chin up. Like movin said, once all the dead wood has gone I think that there is a good industry waiting to come out of this.
Posted Friday 29 Jan 2010 @ 10:51:29 am from IP # -
alfresco24
MemberFolks, according to ABSA/DEWHA of the 360,000 homes budgeted for HSA's there have already been 121,330 assessments done and over 45,000 still on the active booking list.
This leaves around 200,000 to go.
Approx 14,000 HSA's are being done per week.Green Loans are separate and so far the ratio of assessments to Green Loans is about 100:1, but this is likely to ramp up once there's 'more water under the bridge'.
There are 5,000 assessors registered and another 5,000 waiting for registration.
If you are an assessor then you'd better hurry up and get your share of the cake before it's too late.
In any case dont fret too much. Most of the 'dumb ass' assessors will churn out of the system fairly quickly, and to be fair you'd be pretty naive to have done the HSA course without planning to extend that skill into more training for Thermal Performance Assessment for example.
What's that old saying? Look before you leap. People should have done their research, including knowing that you're competing with companies like Fieldforce who know exactly what they're doing.
As for the training organisations. Yes, some of them have been outright deceptive, and as someone posted above - they made promises or representations they know were wrong.
I've heard some ran courses with as many as 15 people at a time - what a lousy approach!
The criteria for accepting students clearly stated they MUST have relevant prerequisite experience, so yes, you should rightly be prepared to sue them for a refund if you're unable to get accredited by ABSA and practice the 'trade'.The only real criticism ABSA deserves is for its failure to police and enforce that standard.
DEWHA and the Labour government deserve credit for creating the programs but boy are they crap at executing.
Posted Friday 29 Jan 2010 @ 12:00:23 pm from IP # -
PaulE
MemberI tend to agree with Enviropoint... there can still be a very worthy industry come out of this fiasco... Sustainabilty Companies with assessment capacities have been around for a long time, but never with so much publicity as now. AS an assessor myself, I suggest we froget about Green Loans and look to ways to get this critical industry stabilised and moving forward.
There is a way!!!
Posted Saturday 30 Jan 2010 @ 3:34:23 am from IP # -
A few other HSA threads but everybody's probably read them...
When I originally looked into the HSAS in becoming an assessor the requirements were that one must have building industry knowledge so I suggested it to my friend who as a draftsman. In his course were a couple of AGL call center girlies so I signed up to the next course stating that I was an ATA member and had moved towards making my house and IT business more sustainable.
I was in...
I did my course in Adelaide in late October and expected to be up and running as an HSA by the end of Novemeber or early December, as my friend took about 3 weeks to get accredited and into the system. We had to wait ages for our police checks to come back ...blank but had everything ready to go out that week - some 4 weeks after the course.
I sent my ABSA forms by express post on the 26th of November and after not getting the ABSA invoice finally got everything paid by the 13th of December. Yay I thought as I was in before the deadline and the ABSA response email said I would have my HO number back 7 business days later. We heard nothing...
On the 5th of January we got our HO numbers finally and sent off the DEWHA contract the day after as these need to go onto the DEWHA contract. The badges we were supposed to get on the 19th but were posted from ABSA on the 20th and they arrived around the 25th. We expected the DEWHA contract to come back around this time also, nothing on that front either!
I'm completely disheartened by this whole Green Loans Program as we may be lucky to break even after spending close to $5000 on the course, the insurance, ABSA fees, equipment - hopefully there's some assessments left for us!
Big companies like Field Force and Enviro 'something' are ripping through assessments in around an hour which makes the scheme a joke.
I figure we would have maybe a month's worth of work at most...
Not happy Jan !!!
Posted Saturday 30 Jan 2010 @ 8:17:21 am from IP # -
alfresco24
MemberStraight up, I'm no great fan of ABSA because they have behaved naively and way below 'standard' for the kind of peak body they thought they were/are. They certainly made no serious attempt to ensure RTO's managed the pre-qualification process and adhere to those standards.
As a member of ABSA should you have confidence in their management credibility? Make up your own mind.A year ago, way before this HSA took off, ABSA were already being lambasted by its existing membership of 'professional' assessors for mediocre performance, so the writing was on the wall but there was confidence they (ABSA) could grow and mature into a competent managed association.
Regret it hasn't happened, yet.HOWEVER, having said all that this fiasco roots itself squarely within DEWHA and the responsible minister, a former/still rock band performer. Now there's a clue to his performance capability.
Remember the PV rebate fiasco. Remember the Insulation rebate rorting (more to be unveiled).I wont let ABSA off the hook entirely, but we should be focussing our grievences at the Labor party and Garrett, Wong, Kelly and Combet.
I wonder what they'll stuff up next.
Posted Sunday 31 Jan 2010 @ 12:45:14 am from IP # -
fk2784
MemberI must say, ABSA'S performance is worst than the worst i have ever seen. I submitted my application on the 16th of December and was told that it would take around 6 weeks for everything to be finalised. So far, i am still waiting for the HO number. That company is extremely bad. Every time i visit to see the progress of the application and why they are not meeting their SLA'S, i get the receptionist which takes the opportunity to make me feel unwelcome on every occasion. They are not interested about us people, all what they care about is the 6Million they already pocketed out. I work in the same building as ABSA and guess what. With that money, the company expanded, they now have a full additional office space double the old space, but they should to treat people with disrespect. Finally, i have to say about the bad management of the program. I once used to be a student in Australia. At that time, i was not allowed to benefit from things that Australians do. Things like work in security or anything similar. I look at this program supposed to help Australians and i see that it managed to do is allow students from all backgrounds to pocket the money supposed to benefit Australians which is going to external coutries. That hardly seems fair. We are Australians, we have mortgages, houses, bills and i think we should have the option to benefit from such a scheme not people not fully commited yet to Australia.
The government should fix their act, give extra money, remove any non Australians from the scheme and then let Australians sustain their future.
Having 10,000+ unemployed Australians is not funny:
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,,26652426-3102,00.html
Posted Sunday 31 Jan 2010 @ 1:30:39 am from IP # -
banjofran
MemberHi all, I would just like to mention to any HSA's that there is a poll on the official ABSA forum to see how we want to proceed in dealing with the present situation, if you are interested also note you can choose multiple actions I say this because did not realise when I voted, as far as I know the ABSA forum is the most concentrated group of assessors, It may not be perfect but it is a chance to be heard. " http://forums.absa.net.au/Topic17279-69-1.aspx " you may need to log on. I hope it was okay to post this ... many thanks. banjofran
Posted Sunday 31 Jan 2010 @ 7:25:12 am from IP # -
Bones
MemberI first saw advertisements early last year for these courses but they all required prerequisite knowledge such as building /architecture etc , so despite being interested
in doing the course and passionate about energy reduction and alternative energy , I had not reconsidered it until late last year when i stumbled across an ad mentioning nothing about any requirements of building knowledge etc so applied and was accepted , paid all the fees etc just like everyone else, still waiting for my licence, ABSA has a recorded message saying all licencing has been outsourced
, Hopefully my licence will "appear" out of the "ether" soon, but if we don't get licenced and the scheme falls over then someone has to pay! ultimately it will always be the taxpayer, so we may very well end up paying twice ! even though we should have been wary , given the prior Rudd govt debacle with the insulation scheme and the Labour Party prior history of mismanagement ofour countrys finances!several of the "students" in our course had come straight off the insulation scheme and were by their own admission only in it to make a fast buck! others were there just to get a database of potential assessors to sweep up into their organisations with call centres to milk the system dry as quickly as possible!
at the expense of those of us who are passionate about alternative energy and energy reduction.
There should have been more checks and balances in the system, and it looks like assessor training should really have been capped or ceased midway through 2009.
I have emailed Tony Abbott (probably to no avail) being the eternal optimist, asking him to look into the situation, and urge all "potential" assessors to lobby the respective politicians re the matter.
If no licence is forthcoming and no work then then we are entitled to have our costs refunded and some are already talking of a class action.
It's very unfortunate as many of us REALLY believe in sustainable energyPosted Tuesday 2 Feb 2010 @ 10:19:17 am from IP # -
Hi all,
Our insulation company has many clients who would like us to assess thier homes. If any independant assessors would like to work with our company, let me know.
We are in Sydney and Brisbane.Thanks,
HIPosted Tuesday 2 Feb 2010 @ 11:54:25 am from IP # -
IT
MemberBones, & others who may be interested,
there is a website where you can register if you are interested in joining in a class action against DEWHA. You would have to be able to establish that you have or are sure to suffer a loss by being contracted to or having been trained ready to be contracted to DEWHA. The site is http://www.sustainabilityassessorsaustralia.com.au
Posted Tuesday 2 Feb 2010 @ 2:10:08 pm from IP # -
WestAssessor
MemberWhat a negative thread.
I've been an assessor since early December of last year, I've completed 110 assessments with 26 booked for the coming week.
It's been a case of hardwork, discipline and a positive attitude.
If you havent gotten your accreditation as quickly as you thought you should have why not? Did you demand a result? Did you lobby to have it ASAP?
Chances are pretty slim I'd imagine.
Posted Tuesday 2 Feb 2010 @ 6:03:22 pm from IP #
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