Is the green loans program going to run out? « Alternative Technology Assn Forums

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Is the green loans program going to run out?

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Started 2 years ago by anna76
Latest reply from Buzzman

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ghostgum
Member

There is an interesting report from Resolution Consulting Services on the Green Loans saga at
http://www.climatechange.gov.au/media/whats-new/green-loans.aspx
http://www.climatechange.gov.au/en/publications/green-loans/review-green-loans-resolution.aspx
http://www.climatechange.gov.au/~/media/publications/green-loans/green-loans-resolution-consulting-report.ashx
Sorry for the multiple links, but these things have a habit of moving.

The green loans program had multiple problems and the report details these.

Quoting: "Loan take-up is about 800 loans to the end of December 2009. Loan approvals are behind expectations but this may be because of the Christmas break." I think they missed the issue that people couldn't apply for a green loan if they didn't receive their green loan report.

Posted Tuesday 20 Jul 2010 @ 1:09:47 am from IP #
ghostgum
Member

Deleted duplicate.

Posted Tuesday 20 Jul 2010 @ 1:18:58 am from IP #
living sustainably
Member

Thanks, very interesting. In http://www.climatechange.gov.au/~/media/publications/green-loans/green-loans-resolution-consulting-report.ashx I found: "...problems existed in the calculation [of the assessment calculator, a software tool] (e.g. recommendations to replace an old dishwasher when there was no dishwasher or install natural gas when it already existed)..."

We had an assessment done in January, and I have been very puzzled about the report we got. Yes, for example it suggested natural gas which we already had. Also, it promised that if we were just to install proper curtains and put in wall and ceiling insulation, we would save a certain amount of greenhouse gas emissions..... which was higher than the emissions it actually said we had in total!

Meaning that having insulation would make our gas heater suck CO2 out of the air and place it back into the pieline as gas....

And the amount of "greenhouse gases emissions" that it said we had caused I couldn't understand at all, either. The report seemed to think we were using 13 cubic metres of gas per day, when actually, we used only 2. And the assessor knew, he had looked at our gas bills and entered them into the system.

But the report didn't list our actual consumption, e.g. the kWhs of electricity, or MJ or cubic metres of gas we had used, directly -- which we would have been able to compare. Instead, it distilled them into a questionable number of "greenhouse gas emissions" and I have no idea where they got that number from.

Because I knew our actual kWh consumption, I tried to verify their claim for greenhouse gas emissions (carbon dioxide????) Knowing the number of kWh, and looking at the emissions the report listed for different aspects of our household, the report seemed to reckon that one kWh of electricity causes somewhere from 7 to 12 kg of greenhouse gas emissions -- but this wasn't even consistent throughout the report.

Our assessment was done in Januar. In theory the software should have been fixed by that time, but either our assessor was still working with the old version, or the new version still had these problems.

We got our assessment late, too. I have complained to them twice saying that the report I got was obviously wrong, but I haven't gotten an answer yet.

Posted Tuesday 20 Jul 2010 @ 12:20:53 pm from IP #
Buzzman
Member

The bottom line is that the best information you were ever going to get was what the assessor told you during the assessment.

The reports have always been rubbish and the software has consistently failed to work or deliver anything remotely like an accurate report.

We assessors TELL people that when we go to their houses because if we don't we look like idiots when the report finally arrives.

Some of us even keep copies of the draft report (which is done at time of entering data) and compare with ones later eceived by Householders. Invariably differ.

I have ALWAYS asked my clients to take notes, and have pointed out to them facts or figures they should write down, so at least they get SOMETHING from the process.

And I email them a list of stuff I've worked out which ar elinks to useful sites and documents about solar or whatever they were most interested in.

Posted Thursday 22 Jul 2010 @ 6:51:43 am from IP #
living sustainably
Member

Buzzman,

wish I had had you as an assessor then.

Ours didn' tell us much that we didn't know, but only: "Just wait until you receive the report, and then you can apply for a loan to have these things fixed." -- Of course, the report was late, and by that time, the 'Green Loans' program was cancelled (and we didn't live in the place any more).

Also -- at the time we were renting. Most recommendations of the report were structural (since in the 'behavioural' way there wasn't a lot we could improve any more). In this ridiculous environment of rental law, where you can't even put as much as a nail in a wall that wasn't there before, what about covering a ceiling with insulation -- or putting some into the wall; altering the windows; even just installing curtains with pelmets; adding shutters or awnings; putting a PV array on the roof? Did the accreditation as assessor encompass any kind of legal advice for renters in this respect? With more then 300,000 rental homes in Melbourne alone, how would you ever make this a sustainable city if the renters have no rights there?

Posted Friday 23 Jul 2010 @ 12:33:31 am from IP #
Diver
Member

living sustainabily,

A few years back, I inquired re installing PV on some investment properties but was told that the rebate only applied to the owner's principal place of residence. Depreciation on capital investment naturally still applied but I did not proceed.

As far as adding shutters, awnings, PV arrays and the like; what happens when you move out?; you own these things! Do you really think that tenants should be allowed to make the changes you mention without the landlords knowledge or permission?

Rental properties will soon be subject to a rumoured $1,500 energy assessment. This exorbitant charge and follow on costs WILL be paid for by tenants through rent increases. Meanwhile, many landlords are receptive to tenants reasonable requests as improvements add value and happy long term tenants also make landlords happy.

One property I bought came with a class A tenant who moved out 6 months later. The next tenant complained about the unbearable heat on hot days so I checked the roof cavity and found there was no insulation! Installing it myself was easy, took less than a day and all materials were tax deductible. I later learnt that the first tenant moved because of high winter energy bills and unbearable heat in summer. Despite meeting her at the time of purchase and later asking if there was anything she needed fixing, she remained silent!

Posted Friday 23 Jul 2010 @ 2:30:24 am from IP #
munter
Member

Here's a rumour from another forum that I pass on as I've not heard anything to the contrary and it might be useful for some members:

The Dept of Climate Change is preparing for a retrospective audit process to see what recipients of Green Loans actually spent the money on.

I don't expect this would be a problem for anyone within this forum which has members personally interested in sustainability but I wonder how many green loan recipients simply pocketed the money as an interest free loan to spend on anything that needed the application of money?

Posted Friday 23 Jul 2010 @ 3:06:38 am from IP #
Buzzman
Member

munter
That audit was always going to be part of the Green Loan process, and will be completed once the program finishes, so it has begun. Think PWhC are doing it but don't quote me.

diver
The insulation and solar HWS rebates were both applicable to landlords of rental properties, so tenants could request them via agent, or landlord could have done it themselves. Did you not know this at the time?

ls
Sorry, would have like to have done your assessment, as talking to interested people is WAY preferable to trying to convince McMansionites that their entire mode of living is unsustainable, never mind their f****ing ugly houses!!

It was/is possible for homeowners/renters to select their own assessor for the free Home Energy Assessments, which are STILL available, despite the GL being cancelled - only the interest-free-loan part has gone. You only need their HO number (ID no.)

So tell your friends who haven't had one yet!! And if, as I think you seem to be saying, you are now in a new house, then you could apply for another FREE assessment for that new house, provided it's a house which is more than 12 months old and has had someone living in it for 12 months. Need not be you, but don't push this point!!

If you want to find a good assessor, there are quite a few on this forum, and on whirlpool, so by all means post a thread asking for one in your local area. If you like, I can re-post it on the ABSA forum and see if someone there wants the job.

You could also log onto the ABSA site here:
http://www.hsas.net.au/site/index.cfm?display=168627
And click on the link to your State/Territory and download the pdf file of local assessors - it should be sorted by postcode, enabling you to find those assessors close to you, then call them and suss them out.

If you just call the GL Call Centre on 1800 895 076 you will get "Joe or Jenny Random Assessor" who has put your postcode down as one they will service. Real pig in a poke, as you've found.

My experience with landlords has been that, if you can demonstrate to them or the agent that you have a clue what you're doing, they will usually go halves if not pay for materials if you provide labour.

Also, ther are loads of things that can be done which are "temporary" and can be removed by you when you leave, and others which you can do that they won't even notice and are super cheap so not worth the hassle unlkess you have a relaly interested landlord (yes, they DO exist, believe it or not).

Posted Friday 23 Jul 2010 @ 4:28:57 am from IP #
Diver
Member

Buzzman,

I insulated two properties, both about 8-9 years ago, costs were about $500 each property. No rebates back then but cost was neglegible after ongoing yearly tax depreciation.

I am in Victoria and I cannot remember who gave the information that investment properties were not eligible for PV rebates, it was over the phone and I wish I could remember. It was about 3-4 years ago. I was filthy about it at the time. These days I would simply post on the ATA forum to seek reliable advice.

Posted Friday 23 Jul 2010 @ 5:51:03 am from IP #
Benny
Member

I'm not an assessor - thankfully I got turned off by the expense and reading all the sad stories here! I haven't read all the recent posts but just came across this blog that says something interesting about the early days of the green loans program.
http://steplight.com.au/ - then click on blog button.

I wonder about this site though - all looks very good and genuine and I'm considering getting the power monitor they advertise, but when they go on about "An energy efficiency temperature gauge" and its just a thermometer I have to shake my head. The ad for it says "Run your fridge, freezer, heating, cooling and hot water systems at economical temperatures – all from the one device!" Run the devices !! What poor consumer is going to think this wonder gadget will actually control the devices rather than just measuring the operating temp ?

Posted Wednesday 4 Aug 2010 @ 2:38:04 am from IP #
Buzzman
Member

Mmmmmmm......

I have heard from people who were involved in the industry that Steplight was in fact set up by or with the support of the Dusseldorp foundation.

The "trained young people" on the Y Green program are either volunteers and not paid at all or (depending who you talk to) are only paid $25 each for the assessments they undertake.

The program is viewed as "a community service" by the people involved.

Their claims may be true - they would have been in a position to see what we all now know to be true, that DEWHA had absolutely no idea what they were doing - but it does smack a little of a particular form of self-righteousness.

They were one of the bidders on the NSW Low Income Pilot Scheme and it was thought that they would undercut other bidders due to the nature of their 'wordforce' being less well paifd than more commercial organisations were required to do.

The above is all hearsay and I make no judgement on it's accuracy or otherwise.

Posted Friday 6 Aug 2010 @ 3:07:27 am from IP #

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